True fire question

Hi

I have a bike to paint with true fire, but the customer want a very pop-up one.
Quick deal : He just called me for the price and tell me : i'm bring the pieces in 30 minutes ... If it could be always like this !

My question is : Is somebody has already try to use fluorescent Orange and Yellow instead of Molly orange and gold yellow ????
Maybe it coul't do a very pop flames with orange and yellow candy over !
I've already done true fire but the colour result is far from the usualy colours we can see on different true fire.
Whatever, i have a lot of preparation work , tank is emboss on the both sides, tanks are embossed too and i have many hole to fill up. I think i will do it by the inside with resin and fiber, and then fill up the external part with 2 part automotive filler.
I will use HOK paints.

pat

[KDSilverBrush]

I haven't had the oportunity to do true fire yet, pat, but I wish ya much luck on this, I'm sure someone will hone in on this and give ya some great tips.

[BigDaddyCustoms]

Was searching through some old posts....but couldn't find the one I was looking for. Someone here used flourescent colors for true fire last year. It was definately different looking (you should have seen it under a black light!) It's killing me that I can't find the pics. It may have been Kant76 (or not). Anyone help out there?

Big D

[pitontheprowl]

Problem to watch out for is some of the flourescent colors may fade, even under a good clear.

[patoche]

Yes , you right, many fluos don't resist very well to the sun;
I will do it with normal paints.

Thanks

pat

[patoche]

I have to paint the full bike with black and do the true fire.
Would you protect the black base coat with intercoat clear (SG100) or with 2 parts polyurethane clear, before to start the fire ?

thanks

pat

pat
if you clear it you can always change your fire
apply it just over the base you'd have to base it again to change it
always safer to add art over clear than base in my book

[patoche]

Thanks don

Is SG100 enough or do i have to use 2 parts clear? Witch mean that i have to sand it before to start the painting job!

pat

[BigDaddyCustoms]

You can use an inner clear....SC 100 (HOK), DBC 500 (PPG) or MTB 500 (Matrix). Whichever paint system you are using, it is reccommended that you use their specific product to avoid any compatability problems.

Inner clears are sandable, have time windows to work within (see mnfctr tech sheet) and less expensive than a regular 2 part clear, not to mention a bit more forgiving......at least that's been my experience. If you don't have any, and don't want to spend the money on the extra product, you can use normal 2 part clear.

Big D

[patoche]

OK , Thanks

In fact, i was thinking to remove the paint in case of mistake buy using solvant , that why i wanted to use 2 parts clear!

But you right , if i do mistake , it will be easier to sand the SG100;

I will use SG100

pat

[patoche]

Again me with my true fire questions.

Here a picture of a tank done with HOK paints. (the bue one)
As you can see, the true fire colour is not very pop compare to the other picture.
Is someone has an explanation? What i've done wrong ?
Do you think i've been to light with the molly , yellow and white base coats ?

If someone has an idea

thanks

pat

Pat
Could it be the blue is just over powering the flame colors?

[patoche]

I don't think so Don , i've sprayed a coat of black under the flames.

pat

[amatt3833]

Not sure, but maybe another layer of white and then yellow over the top. Try to go a little heavier on the white to make it pop...

(Just a newbie here, i'm sure someone will leave better advice).

[wickedairbrush]

hi pat
i have found if you want a nice bright flame,the last layers i have used chrome yellow
then hit it with candy pagan gold, the gold candy brightens all of your fire,
then a mix of white and chrome yellow to do the hotspots and a few flame licks at the base of the flame, it will look white, but i then use pagan gold lightly over the top, just to give it a golden yellow look,it will take away the white look
see how you go
good luck
Shane

[patoche]

Well, i've decided to clear the black base coat with 2 parts clear to protect it before to start the true fire.
Just after clear job finish , the customer came to see me and ask me to spray light orange pearls over the full bike
Result , i've done the clear job for nothing except i spent clear stuff, lose 1 day of drying time , and i have to sant it again!
I will sand it and shoot a very thin mix of sg100 with pearl , and then i will start the true fire directly over the pearls, if the true fire is bad , he will get a bad true fire.
Was close to kill him and bury him at the back of the garden!

Pat

[KDSilverBrush]

oh noooo patoche. I think I would be putting a clause in my paperwork that say's any changes made to the art work should be made before the painting starts, that is, if you have a way of showing the work before the paint is ever applied. I don't have a lot of fancy equipment, I do a sketch, water color it, and show the prospective customer. if they like that, then they are going to like the finished work.

[Diaz Dezine]

Well take it this way Pat, you learned something very valuable here so not all is lost.
Make the customer happy at all cost but just remind them next time that it will cost extra to sand, add more artwork and reclear.
I try to shoot e-mails or give out examples before we get goin on the job itself but I didn't learn that until I went through the very same thing you just went through.
He asked you to add this and he will live with what he asked you to do, you are an artist and you will make it look badass like you always do no matter the circumstances, that's just what you do.
Besides this can't be near as bad as a situation as the mural you did a couple of months ago, you pulled that off no problem.
DIAZ

[rowie]

Pat, I will say this once and once only!

NEVER, EVER bury the client in your back yard! ALWAYS use your neighbors!!

As far as your fire goes brother the only things I can see to mention would be that some areas need to be a bit heavier with the base transition colours and using small really bright spots would totally make it POP more, using trans white with a few drops of chrome yellow on the hottest areas will add so much more of a boost to the "Bling" factor.

I also love to use HoK's Passion pearl (purple) on some of the deepest, darkest edges and I like to mist some around the the edges of the fire too.

With the 2 pack clear, I think you went with the right plan brother, I wish I would think of it more often!
20/20 hindsight is such a wonderful thing.

Go for it Pat, I think it will be a beautiful piece of rolling art when finished.

[patoche]

Last important question !

I've have sanded the 2 parts clear and now the surface is opaque!
It's not a problem if i have to clear it directly !
The problem is i have to spray SG100 mixed with orange pearls and clear after!
What will happen over my black clear sanded base coat (now i have a coat of pearls over).Are the micro-cratches will disapear as if i would clear directly over the sanded clear.
Do i have to spray a new white base coat ?

Thanks

pat

pat

what did you sand it with?
Grit?
Wet or Dry?

[patoche]

hi don

I'heve sanded it with 800 wet and finished with scotch brite !!!

I'heve many scrates !

pat

Pat

Spray water over it do the scatches dissappear?

[patoche]

No, i can see it through the water !!!!
i think i have to spray a new black base coat !
Is there any risk to crimp or to crample if y spray a new solvant base coat over it??

pat

Pat check you PM

[jbf]

Pat If you used the scotchbrite just on the edges your good 800grit is just fine to spray pearl over. As for brite flames it helps me to put down a coat of intercoat clear between each final candy coat stage. It helps in stopping the candy from bleeding in to the next opaqe step which causes the layer to look BLAH BLAH BLAH
Hope this helps!!!
Brian...

[patoche]

Ok , thanks for your help.
Strange, i've never get this problem, maybe the clear was not enough dry.
Tha last helmet with the eagle head has been done by the same way , with the same clear without problem !

Is there any risk to put a new base coat over the clear ?

pat

If the clear is not completely flashed, dried yes might well cause problems.

[patoche]

Ok

I've sanded again the clear with 1500 3M 260L wet , under constent shower and now : IT'S OK !
No more scratches under water !
800 grit paper was too less or maybe it's a bad quality grit paper, my scotch brit was maybe to hard, i don't know!
I've use the same 1500 grit paper i usualy use when i start my buffing work and it's ok! I think i have frighten myself.
Should be OK to shoot the pearl tomorrow.

When you say spray a coat a SG100 over the base to avoid fading with candy , do i have to do it even if my candys are alredy mixed in SG100?

Thanks again to everybody for you help, i really don't know what i would do if your website didn't exist Don !

Pat

[jbf]

yes what I do is after my orange candy steps, I cover it with a coat of intercoat clear, let dry then proceed on with my opaqe color [white-yellow]
then candy as needed then again with intercoat clear and so on!!!!

Hope im getting across what Im trying to say
Brian...

[patoche]

Ok

thanks JBF, i will do like you !

pat

[patoche]

OK

the bike is finished, i 'm pretty happy of my fire even if i don't like the true fire look very much , found very boring to do !
Just have to let it dry and start a sanding and polishing work to get a miror effect.

pat

[admin]

came out great Pat very good job

[amatt3833]

very nice work pat

[waycool]

Pat they came out looking hot

[boxcar]

this is about the scratches- you can hide a ton of them if you spray a coat of 100 or 500intercoat or clear base (depending on paint line) before you shoot the pearl mixture(or for that matter metallic) old bodyshop trick- not real bad ones, just a little cheat to save yer ass when it needs a little savin' -worked great on mercedes & lexus when the body man got lazy ! p/s the fender looks real sharp