Snuff's School of Flames

Hello and welcome to Snuff's School of Flames.
I must apologize to everyone who asked me to do this. I promised it several weeks ago and got so busy I couldn't find the time.
Anyhoo I have the time now so lets burn the place down.

First base your thoughts on these premise:

An airbrush can lay even opaque colors in a transparent manner. So this can be done with opaque colors.

Fire is constantly moving ....Always up.....sometimes sideways....and toward and away from the viewer. It is not orderly .....it is kaos.

Black is the easiest background to paint flames on, although it can be done on any background....but more care is needed.

Background flame is loose and fuzzier...... foreground flames are tight and well defined.

And an expensive airbrush is not necessary to do this.



To start off .....the equipment used is:
1 Iwata hp-bcs
1 Iwata hp-cs
Both inexpensive but very capable brushes.
An assortment of shields shown in the first pic. (not all are necessary)
All paints are Createx opaques unless otherwise specified.
1 large piece of corugated cardboard.

Now to actually start painting.
Prep the cardboard by shooting the first side black. Next using MOLLY ORANGE
we begin building the fire, simple freehand double ended daggers are all that is used here.
I mixed this from red & yellow to match a Liquidtex color chart.
I am using very simple shapes here and NO SHIELDS YET. This progression of pics will not look like much at first but follow along and you'll see where its going.
When the basic shapes of the flame are complete the whole thing gets a coat of transparent red.

At this point it looks pretty crappy and sad, but this is only the background flame and it will get better. You will also notice as we progress that the splochy streaky look will contribute to the flame later on.

BTW if anyone feels like folowing along, post some stuff and we'll work on it together.

Yes that's me in the pics ........It's my best side ..dont ya think?

[Snuff]

Hi all and welcome to lesson two.
All I'm doing here is building on some parts that I like and adding some more to the layering. This is all done with the molly orange used in the first lesson.

I started to use shields here to help preserve some of the background shapes.
You do not want to cover all of your background stuff up as it will make the flame look too fake and stiff.
Remember you can give the illusion of transparency by spraying just enough color to get the point across but still letting the previous work show through.

Flame is transparent...........

If you notice the licks are starting to show all of the attributes mentioned earlier.
There is upward movement, sideways and fore and aft movement as well.
Also there is some breakoffs and disintegration starting to show.
This is a very simple fire and it is starting to show all of this already, IT'S GONNA GET HOTTER before we're finished.

[chucktx]

great how ya did it snuff........hope there is more!!!

[Ern666]

Hey Snuff i agree with Chucktx this is very helpful thank you and i hope there is more, with the help of this tut i will definitely try the fire....
thanks, Ern

[Snuff]

Yep there is more.
I gotta resize the pics, and write the rest.
I am surprised that out of all the people that asked me to do this there hasn't been a better response. These are very simple flames and I was gonna cover some more complex ones, and even go to blue. But i'm kinda having second thoughts about taking this thread further after I finish this part.
C'mon folks post some stuff and lets help each other out!

[redneck]

snuff, I thought about posting earlier but were unsure if I should start new thread or not, if everybody post on this thread -follow your lessons will take longer to scroll -thru
the first 2 lessons will be a good teaching program

[cmonty54]

SNUFF, I'M HERE!!!!!! I can't start my class until Tues after I get home from work, but I am so PUMPED!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You have shown so much great info and I see so much better now how to get rolling on fire. PLEASE, don't stop, I will start tommorrow and will post my progress, I PROMISE TEACHER!!!!!!!!! So keep going, I will run and catch up! THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS!!!!! Cindy

[Snuff]

Chuck, ERN, Redneck, Cindy,
Sorry I got mad before but a lot of people asked me to do this, and I wanted to help. Well just make it a small class then.
Cindy keep those fairies away from the card table they're murder at Texas hold 'em.lolololol
Hey we can do flaming fairies if ya want.
Red' post 'em here.......i'll find 'em.

[Joyce]

Snuff, I am a sponge here, soaking it all up. Thank you for posting the how to, I am taking all of this in, the whole time feeling guilty that I have nothing to offer being such a newbie. I am going to sometime in the near future try to paint flames on the riding mower for my thirteen year old son. He has been asking me to at least try. This info and the info that BDC posted is all going to be put to use at this house. Thanks again and you are a much appreciated leader in my book.

[Snuff]

Joyce,
Jump righ in and do some along with us. That newbie stuff is no excuse Were all here to learn and help, besides you've been around a while you aint a newb
any more.

Shoot some on cardboard now and when you do the riding mower you'll blow your son away. Then he'll be asking for full race slicks and a blower to make it as fast as it looks.

[Joyce]

I guess you are right, why not huh? I am the only female in the house with all these guys, they love this stuff and love seeing me do it. One thing leads to another like you said. Oh well here I go. Thanks

Snuff you put this in Airbrush Artist Magazines tutorial forums not sure thats where you intended it to go. Its a big confusing place.

I moved it to a more accessable part of the forum and gave you your own forum.

In the future please just let me know if something is not going as you expected.

If this does not work for you just let me know I can move it wherever you want.
Don

[redesigns]

Looking good snuff..

[KwitcherBitchin]

Thanks Snuff, looks like it's time to start trying some Flames ..................Kwit

[xzotic ink]

SNUFF I WANT TO FLAME YA HEAD ,,,LOL,,,SORRY COULDNT RESIST,,,i love the how to's,,keep em coming snuff!

[Snuff]

Nat,
actually I was thinking of getting a tatoo of Tweety Bird on the back of my dome.

Thanks Don I wasn't quite sure where to put it.

[Snuff]

Hi guys,
I'm going to stuff the next few lessons into one post, so here it is.

The next thing we do is to shoot candy tangerine ( mixed from some molly orange and tranparent red to match an AA color chart) over the whole area of flames.
You will notice a really cool glow and blending effect taking place here. ( pic 1)

In the next 4 pics we build in another layer of molly orange.
There is a big note here.......Do not place the shields over the old shield lines....move them in and somewhat askew from the old ones. This fire needed a little more character so some more new shapes were needed. This will add more depth to the licks.


The last pics have us building in a layer of opaque yellow.
The thing to note here is although there are some new shapes added they are few, and most of the work is highlighting already established shapes.
Also note that there are a few freehand streaks added here and there. This is just to add some motion, and should be added with discretion at this point.

This brings us to the end of the first project. There will be more coming as soon as we get some homework posted.
Keep in mind this is just a simple version of what will come later. I did it this way so the noob's among us will not get intimidated, and also for illustration purposes. The flames will get hotter and better.

If you followed along and tried to aproximate what I have done here you will see that the the fire has motion and depth and the colors are approximatly right. (this will be improved later on) there is also twists and turns and level changes.
I busted my butt for a while to get it just right and you will see in the end it is really not that hard to do.

Thank you....Dave

[Snuff]

Wow!
I just looked at the clock and it took me two hours to put this in here. I really fatfingered the keyboard a lot. Time to get some sleep.
G'nite.

[cmonty54]

Wow SNUFF, I printed all the info and I will have my computer in front of me while I do it. I have to take my puppy to the vet when I get home from work tonite, but when I get back!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'll be sitting in your class trying to do some flames. I'll post pics then. It may be late, but I'm gonna try. I'm kind of chicken cause I sorta tried another time and it was AWFUL!!! You won't flunk me will ya Snuff??????

[Snuff]

Cindy,
I won't flunk ya, I'll just beat ya over the head till ya get it right.
oooooooo tough drill instructor talk. lololol.

[cmonty54]

OUCH...You better watch out, I'll sick one of my BAD fairies on ya! Maybe I'll just learn how to do a fire fairy, then we'll see!!!! See ya later tonite with my work!!!!!

[cmonty54]

OK snuff, you are going to want to flunk me now. This is awful!!!!! Here is my first attempt, I am about to try 2nd one if I don't jump off a bridge 1st!!!!!!!!!!!!

[cmonty54]

Well, can I cry now????? This is so bad!!! I promise I will try again later this week....your classes are the bomb Snuff, it's just me that's a BOMB..I'll keep trying!!! I'm so embarassed, so sorry Snuff, you deserve more respect for your classes. practice, practice I know......my fairies must not have been on my shoulder helping tonite..... thats OK I have time and patience, thanks for the classes Snuff, I will have to keepn trying>>>>>>

[Snuff]

Cindy,
Shake it off, its only paint!
Go back to pics 1,2,3 and practice the double ended ...........er.....um.......DAGGERS.These will help later on in the paintings.
Believe me the first few try's I did were utter crap. If you can try to copy mine. I kept it simple so that folks could build thier skills.
The double daggers take time to learn to do in one stroke, try to do them in 2 starting from the center out. Youv'e done daggers before now try them squiggly. Dont try do do the whole painting in one shot.We'll build on the basics.
What you want to do now is get the first layer down and keep it transparent...sort of. Also don't crowd too much in the center, keep it open and loose. A little goes a long way in suggesting fire. Use the K.I.S.S. principle (for those that don't know .....thats...Keep It Simple Stupid)

Keep on pluggin away and don't give up.......or i'll paint a fire fairy and send her after ya.

[chucktx]

snuff....i cant thank ya enough for this howto.....you did a wonderful job of explaining the different steps......a big hats of to you!!!

[cmonty54]

Thanks Snuff, I will try to relax and concentrate on the areas you mentioned. Thanks SSSSSSSSSOOOOOOOOOOOOO much for the extra help, teacher. I know, you want a big apple! Or was that a bottle of JD????
I might get to paint tonite and I'll try again.

I do hope to get good enough to paint that FIRE FAIRY someday and then I'll really rock!!@@!

[rowie]

Excellent work snuff, I like the way you have stepped out the format and explained the "Loose to tight - Dark to light" rule that needs to be adhered too with realistic fire.

well done on a top How-to.

[Snuff]

Rowie,
How do you do your avatars.
This last one kills me.
Did you use photoshop to put chimp eyes on a giraffe? That face is so wild im laughing before he does the eyebrow thing.


'Atta girl Cindy. Hang in there. I'm sketching up a "fire fairy" now. When we get that far I'll spring her on ya for a project. I gotta find the right face though I might use Betty Paige, cuz she can look so evil.
No apples please anything healthy in this body would probably send me into terminal shock.lol
A bottle of Gentleman Jack would be cool.

[Joyce]

Snuff, don't give up on me. I am in the process of moving myself out of the house and getting setup in the garage or looking into a little 10x12 building, then I want to get in on your class. I see Cmonty is taking it up real well.

[Snuff]

Jump on in when you can Joyce.
Just try to do the stuff in the first three pics. That double dagger is important. It lets you blend foreground to background easier.
I'm gonna post some reference pics from a campfire we had on labor day weekend. when we get a little further along. There are some good licks in there.

[BigDaddyCustoms]

Dave, er, Snuff,

Great How-To here. Love the class! Will have to give it a shot myself.....can never learn too many different ways to do things!.

Big D

[cmonty54]

Hi Snuf, I've been in class since I got home from work and this is the best of my homework (out of 4) that I am going to turn in. It's not good, but I can see improvement and a place to keep working on, right LOL???? I can see where I need to loosen it up and not be so perfect in an area, right? I'm trying and maybe starting to feel it, we will see! Anyway, this is my best today TEACH...... Hope i can get an A for effort cause I know they have a was to go! Again, thanks for your help!!

[Snuff]

Much better Cindy!
But you need to slow down. Your'e trying to do a complete pic before you have the basics.
Let's walk first. Give me a few double ended daggers like the ones in the first 3 pics. Just basic shapes, then we'll move on.
The good news is you're starting to FEEL it. Thats all i do. I don't use reference pics anymore, I look at the space I want to fill and the fire just comes out.
I know that you want to do a complete pic, but you gotta move slower.
I'll tell you it was torture for me to stop and take pics, and then resize and post them then go back to paint some more etc....etc....
I can do what I posted here in 20min. But to convey the basics I had to slown and think what to put in the pic to simplify and still get the point across.
What I want is for all who take part in this is to really make a fire BURN.

If you get the results that I got when I did my first good flame, I've done my job. My 7 year old daughter saw a vest that I did for a customer, screamed
"daddy there is a fire in your office" ran downstairs and returned with a fire extinguisher. She was truly upset and couldn't figure out why i was sitting on the floor laughing my a@# off.
So hun slow down and give me only what's in the first three pics. If you do them in the traditional "hot rod " style shapes it will help for now.


Jump on in Big D the waters er....um kinda warm.

[cmonty54]

Morning Teacher..... Sorry I didn't stop and take pictures. OK, I will try to paint tonight, otherwise it won't be until this weekend again. I will SLOW DOWN (a small problem of mine ) and try to acheive what you have asked. Thanks some more Snuff.....I'm listening and paying attention, just have to learn how to apply it!!!!

[cmonty54]

Hi Teach, Well I took pics in sequence tonight and I can hear your words as I'm painting, I got better, so that's something. I filled in the middle too much, not loose enough and not enough dagger strokes, and more!!!! but I'm feeling it more and more. Thanks Snuff, I'll do more practicing this weekend. We are supposed to have GREAT weather here so my hubby and I plan to spend some hours on our bikes this weekend!!!!!!!! Can't wait! Cindy

[Joyce]

Snuff, It is ridiculous to think that you could even really see my big flop in the picture, but I wanted to post it anyway to let you know I am starting to work on it. I hope tomorrow evening I can work on it. Anyway.... here it is. You laughing yet? Don't fall over laughing. It is my first one. LLLLLLLLLLooooong ole ways to go.

[Joyce]

I know you used Molly Orange, I only have transparent orange, yellow red and golden yellow in Createx colors. I won't be able to get up north to get more paint for awhile. so will these be okay to use to get the same fire effect.? Okay, I know you are looking at it saying color is the least of my problems, but in hopes of sometime in a few years when I get better, will those colors be okay? Oh man this is bad. Big Daddy I see you in this thread, don't laugh, I am gonna be following your instructions one of these days too.

[Snuff]

Cindy & Joyce,

Good job ladies! Now you need to get the daggers thinner. Get closer to the paper and live where the needle almost meets the paper.
The control it takes to get skinny without much overspray will help in all of your airbrush endevors so ya might as well practce them now. We can always make them fatter. What you are striving for is to get a kind of map, the general shape and character of the flame. As in any pic you paint you will be defining a shape, (filling a space) and making the illusion of 3d.
Once again well done.

Joyce if you have any other acrylic paint (golden, liquidtex,...etc) they can be used to get a good approximation of molly orange It's just a slightly redish orange anyway. The acrylics are compatible with each other for the most part. (L-tex can be mixed with C-tex or golden....etc) So use what ya got for now.

[Joyce]

Snuff, after laying down the black background and then the molly orange double ended daggers, how do I go about filling in the streaky part in the photo. I am posting one of your pics to show you what I am talking about. Sorry for any dumb questions, just want to get it right. Thanks

[cmonty54]

Hi Snuff, Here is my latest. I still have lots of room for improvement, but I'm starting to see the fire, the flicks, just too full, right???? Tell me what I'm still doing wrong. I like the bigger one better, seems easier to do when I can do bigger flames.

[Snuff]

Joyce just back off a bit on the trigger and pull the brush back away to fill a space. then streak with the skinny daggers. Don't shoot the paint on heavy just light coats till you get the desired effect.

Cindy you got the daggers skinnybut your'e still rushing thru to the last lesson.

Do this ladies COPY what I have in THE FIRST 3 PICS.
Yes i'm getting a little loud but there is more to teach you. just the first 3 picks pleeeeeeeze!

[cmonty54]

OK treacher, sorry, patience has never been one of my traits. I will try to do just the first 3 pics later today, going out on the motorcycles first!! later.........Cindy

[cmonty54]

OK, here are the first 3 steps, oops, forgot a picture, well maybe you can get the gist. so where do I go from here Snuff?????? thanks...

[Snuff]

Sweet! Cindy,
Now look at the next set of pics and LIGHTLY fill in some of the space between what youve put down.
When that is done you'll see kind of "ribbons" of flame. Then shoot over the orange with transparent red. Keep in mind that you want to see the orange coat thru the red.

If I dont get back to anyone quickly in the next 3 days I'm going to be real busy. Please bear with me and I will get back to you.

[xzotic ink]

IM ALWAYS LATE TO CLASS,,,i never pay attention until its too late,,NOW I HAVE TO FLAME OUT A TSHIRT ,,,YIIIKEEES,,I did one this weekend ,,post it tonight for ya,,,ever since i started reading these TRUE FIRE threads my flames have been all off,,,i use to do tribals or traditional flames,,but now i cant even do that cause of these true fire threads,,my heads all confused

SO IM HERE ,,,just catching up,,but ill do some posting soon on my progress,,thanks snuff,,O NO ,,NOT JOYCE IN MY CLASS,,,LOL

[Snuff]

Welcome aboard Nat,

Yes and u have to sit between her and Cindy,lol
Bring a bottle of Jack for the teacher.

[cmonty54]

Hello Mr. Snuff, sorry I haven't turned in my homework yet , but I have a good excuse . (My 14 yr old neice is staying with me for a week, so I may not get any painting done!) But I know what my next step is on my flames and I will do it as soon as I can. Maybe I'll have another big apple for you or wait, a bottle of Jack. Thanks, Cindy

[Diaz Dezine]

Oh boy,,, this is gonna be fun! Looks like Snuff is not accepting any excuses....better bring him some JACK!
BTW, Snuff this is a really cool thing you have got started here!
DIAZ

[chucktx]

i agree diaz.......a very cool idea!!!! and snuff, you are a great teacher, you get your point across very well and seem to have a great time doing it. you have a great attitude and it rubs off on all of us !!!!!! thanks

[Joyce]

Snuff. here is my homework. sorry took so long, I was havin a hell of a time with the createx yellow, did everything and still the same thing. Bought new paint and its not as bad but still not great. Hope this is okay.

[Snuff]

Joyce,
That's great the stringiness can be made to work well later on, and will add some extra life to the licks. Now use the pic u just painted and on the outside bends fatten them up into a kind of rounded triangle. Lets see if it works to edit your pic. I think it worked.
That c-tex yellow can be as bad as the white u should try shooting it thru a custom micron with a 1.8 tip .........Mr Rogers can u say MAJOR P.I.A.?

On the areas I marked do a smooth blend from the line you already have , to a fade out at the point.
I hope I explained this right ........if not just look at the pics.
BTW for anyone following along and not posting I'm trying to get you to do this part freehand to add realism, and so u won't be so reliant on stencils.


Thanks for the compliments guys.......its a good thing I don't wear a helmet that much, You're making my hat size swell.

[cmonty54]

HI, I'm still in class, just taking a quick leave of absense. You should be seeing my next step Sun or Mon. Thanks, C

[Snuff]

CINDY ARE YOU CUTTING CLASS AGAIN!?

Whatever kind of havoc youre causing with those faries .........i'll have some too.
No prob C I've been kinda busy m'self . Being Mr mom and job hunting can get hectic. And now the battery died on my bike, and it has no kick starter. I guess that would be sorta dangerous on a 103 cu. in bike, hell if it backfired
it'd throw my fat a$$ 5 or 6 houses down the street wwaaaaahhhhhhoooooo!

Oh well on the brighter side I may have a new job!
I hafta' go for a second interview and a test on monday. Can you say math test kiddies.......yuk!
It dosent make sense to test for this when I have a degree in electronics an30 yrs exp, and have been doing the machinist thing for 8 yrs.
Those two professions use more math than physicists do.

[redneck]

good luck with the test , you are right about using math as a machinest & electroc [excuse my spelling

[Joyce]

Snuff, I'll be rooting for you here. Good luck with the test. There is a math website you can go to and brush up on your skills, I think it's math.com, but I will double check and get back to ya if I am wrong. Heck, just for confidence sake.

[Joyce]

Yep, it is math .com and it looks real good. It has all kinds of help on it. No that I would think you need it, but just thought I'd send that info to ya in case you feel the need. I hope it is okay to post this.

[cmonty54]

SNUFF, my fairies are going to be with you when you take that test, so you are sure to FLY thru them and they will be with you in your interview giving ya GOOD VIBES!!!! REALLY, good luck we are all rooting for ya. I'm busy cause my 13yr old niece from MN is visiting and we are trying to do stuff with her. My baby is 21 now, so I'm a little rusty with what young kids do!!!!!!! IM and text most of the time I think!
Now next weekend......... the wild fairies are going to come out and party, we are going RVing and bringing the bikes!!! WWWAAAAHHHOOOOOO!!! Look out, don't worry, I don't drink and ride, but I do DRINK and I do RIDE!!!!! I'll try to get back to class before that!! Not cutting, just kind of avoiding! hehe KNOCK EM DEAD SNUFF!!!!!

[cmonty54]

Hey Joyce, forgot to tell ya, LOOKIN GOOD!!!!!! So glad you are in class with me!!! That way we can both harass the teacher and blame each other?????? LOL KEEP UP the GOOD WORK!!! Your fellow classmate...

[Diaz Dezine]

Good luck Snuff on your interview!!!
DIAZ

[Joyce]

Okay, I added the rest that you showed me in the picture. Is the stringiness supposed to be there? Anyway, here it is.

[Snuff]

Great job Joyce,
Those nice skinny daggers will come in handy later but for now try to blend smoothly to the background like shown below. Then add some lighter licks like the ones shown in orange. The scribbled areas should be smooth and light, just a hint of color.No daggers just fill it in.
Look at how it moves now. It twists and turns and moves toward you and away.

That wasn't easy to do with a mouse! a friend is going to let me use photoshop to edit stuff.

BTW thanks for the vote of confidence for the test, I do it on a daily basis so it shouldn't be a problem. I made it thru Calculus on the first try, (although it was like walking thru one of Lee's pictures LOL..............no offense LD) Hell this should be a walk in the park.

[xzotic ink]

VERY COOL JOYCE,,,THESE FLAMES ARE A BITCH,,,sorry to say,,,ever since i messed with them with JASON DOLL im all screwed up on them,,lol

SNUFF CAN YOU POST SOME REGULAR TRIBALS FLAMES OR MAYBE TRADITIONAL ONES,,,IF ya dont mind,,,trying to do some design on a shirt and i better just stick with the basic ones for now,,than i can mess with the real ones,,,BUT CAN YOU POST COLORED ONES,,,some reason i always put YELLOW ON TOP AND RED ON BOTTOM,,,WHO KNEW I WAS ALWAYS BACKWARDS WITH THE COLORS,,,maybe you could show me a few so i can get it right this time,,,thanks for posting this stuff by the way,,its awesome and very helpfull

[xzotic ink]

good luck snuff!!!! ooops i never read first,,,i always yap away and than im like WHAT,,no seriously YOU WILL KICK ASS!!! ComE ON MAN your hardcore with ya flames,,,

[Snuff]

I'll paint some up for ya Nat.

BTW For all who wished me well on the test I ace'd it. He told me most people take a half hour to 45 min to finish.....I did it in just under 8 min.heheheheheheheheheh.

[Joyce]

Alright Snuff!!!! Glad to hear it. We were all cheering for ya. I am still here. I have been cleaning up Tom's man cave trying to get a little room for my airbrushing out there. I do not know how guys work in such cluttered spaces. Believe it or not he loves me for cleaning it up, but once in awhile I see that little pouty lip when I ask him to weed out a little of the junk.

[Diaz Dezine]

Cool Snuff! I knew you could walk through it like walking through one my pictures!!
CALCULAS...EIGHT MINUTES....I give up on a poop after twenty minutes!!!lol!
Congradulations Snuff!! You are a good ole' boy, you deserve it!
DIAZ

[rowie]

Lee.. EWWWWWWW!!

But point made brother.

Snuff, way to go bro, what a way mate, not just to rip the test a new one but to do it with such style, haha..

!!BRILLIANT!!

[Snuff]

Thanks folks,
Dontcha just love it when you get a chance to kick ass.

Nat for some reason when I read your last post I couldn't get " Tribal realflames " out of my head.
It was like one of those songs that gets stuck there ( along with all the other crazy shit in mine)
So I sketched some up and now I gotta work them out to see if I can make them look good. This is gonna be fun.......something totally original!

[Joyce]

Okay Snuff, I think I did what you instructed me to do. Here's the picture.

[Snuff]

Nice job Joyce,
Now shoot a coat of transparent red over it and we'll move on to the next step.
Remember......shoot it light just enough to get a good red tint.
If you have to use opaque red thin the hell out of it and shoot a very light coat ... let it dry......shoot a little more......etc....

[BigDaddyCustoms]

Looking good Joyce!

Congrats Dave.....Gotta get together for a beer next time I'm in the Burgh.

Big D

[KDSilverBrush]

Hey Snuff, This is great !!! I have been racking my brain all week to try and figgure out how flames are done, and then I came across this , wow !!! All I have are a few createx paints, so this is perfect for me , thank you so much for doing this! Will there be more to the lesson ? I'm gonna try and do this today. Thankx again Snuff, you saved me a lot of frustration .
with respect,
KD

[xzotic ink]

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL DIAZ!!!!!!!!!!! GOOD ONE!!!

THANKS SNUFF,,,,BUT 8 MINS,,OMG,,THATS INSANE MAN,,,NICE STUFF JOYCE,,,,,

CONGRATS ON THE TEST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[xzotic ink]

SNUFF THIS IS WHEN I WAS AN AMATEUR,,,i told ya i was always back words on the color schemes until i met jason doll,,i use to put red on bottom instead of yellow,,,,,AND i didnt do long whips,,i think they called it,,,

OF COURSE the customer loved it at the time,,but i laugh today,,i still think its pretty cool cause its my design and at the time i didnt know about these other flames,,,i wasnt comp connected,,so this is when i was working from just my head thoughts,,not researching the subject kinda thing,,ya know what i mean,,,,now i know flames are big and i cant do no amateur flames for customers anymore,,

but i thought you might want to check this out,,INCASE ya didnt see it,,posted it MADE LONG AGO,,painted it like over 1 yr and half ???

[xzotic ink]

the sides came out better,,,i just deleted the files because they were so old but found this front one,,,