Pondering Quitting my Day Job to go Full Time...Seeking Advice

[dungeonworks]

Hey all,

I have an opportunity to launch my airbrushing/custom painting into a full time operation and am seeking some advice on a few things as I ponder doing this. The major hurdle is leaving a good paying job with great benefits and a not so good future prospect for maintaining it as it is with General Motors on the assembly line and we all know the problems they are having. Once gone from GM I cannot go back hence my posting this thread. In other words, I am having a hard time deciding if the leap off the porch and out of the proverbial security blanket a UAW GM job has in pay and benefits. My questions are how do you full-timers handle these issues:

1. Health Insurance
2. Investing for the future (IRA, 401k...ect)
3. Registering as a legitimate business (..or not )

If I take this separation in the form of a "buyout", I will have the temporary financial means to fulfill my intentions in the first year or two aside the unanswered items above. I will still get part of my pension in retirement age which won't be much, but I am more concerned with the health insurance and the likely hood of getting a commercial space eventually. My main line of airbrush work is in the form of motorcycles, helmets, and wall murals with the odd tee shirt or canvas, but I may try for some tee shirt booth gigs in the future. I don't want to chain myself to one genre or airbrush art or just custom painting. It's a big leap with a big gamble, but as I mentioned, the American Auto industry is in shambles and not to mention it would be more full filling to do something I like for a living as opposed to something I "have" to.

So, has anyone been here before? Does anyone have any advice to offer in this? What about things I am not seeing or mentioning here? Any and all advice is highly appreciated!!!

Gary

[redneck]

Gary, I am leaving your question for someone else to answer BUT will wish you GOOD LUCK in what ever way that you decide to go

[brushbyair]

Gary, as a former GM'er myself (retired after 34 years) I must say I would not leave the company with the benefits that you recieve. I know the future sometimes looks grim in the auto industry, but it has always been that way, in the early 80's during the oil embargo it seemed like I would never have steady employment with GM, then in the 90's it was a boon era, too much overtime. I don't know you entire situation, single, married, children, but I can tell you this, as you get older you will see how important the benefits alone you recieve from the company are worth all of the agony you deal with at the present. My suggestion to you would be to try to establish yourself with another airbrush artist or even try to establish your own business, by keeping your employment with GM you will ALWAYS have that to keep yourself established if your own business doesn't work out. Brushbyair ( Lansing 652)

[Diaz Dezine]

I'm really gonna have to agree with Brush here Gary.
The benefits, the 401k and being in a union, I just don't know if I would leave all that. Also don't know what your family situation is at home either and wether you have any dependents or not.
Now grant it, I left my job in Ohio, whirlpool corp., and it was good beni's, 401k, and very good pay also, at least for that region, but I was very young and they also gave me a year to come back if things didn't work out.
My wife and I were very fortunate to land very good jobs in the beginning. Her in human resources in a major company and I landed a great job in a custom paint shop for , a then, major player in the custom motorcycle industry.
By the time I left that job I was able to establish enough contacts to go at it on my own but I also have my wife to support me with my decision to go at it bymyself and she also had the beni's, the 401k and decsent paycheck. Otherwise I don't think I would have done it alone.
Out here in AZ there is the potential to start your own business at something like this mainly because there is year round riding weather for MC's, all terrain vehicles, great dry climate for hotrods and also alot of money out here,, but I've seen alot of artists crash and burn because of too much competition or not enough planning or just plain not enough money to get it started let alone to keep it goin'.
Obviously you are from the north east and the competition for this type of work is not as thick as it is here but there also isn't the type of people that make the money to spend on custom stuff like this or believe me I would go back to Ohio surrounded by family and friends and a lucrative custom airbrush business.
I'm not saying it can't be done but starting this type of business kind of needs a little of all the planets to align and a descent chunk of cash for equipment, material, marketing, getting completely legal and also insurance, not only for medical purposes but for the establishment that run your business out of.
Not trying to talk you out of being an airbrush artist but just establishing slowly with water in the pool and not just dry concrete. Which you seem smart enough for that not to happen being with the type of questions you are asking and great questions they are and also a great topic to discuss.
Hopefully others will join in on this discussion because this a great subject.
Good luck Gary with whatever you decide and do and hopefully we will see you and some of your work here soon!
DIAZ

[dungeonworks]

Originally Posted by brushbyair

Gary, as a former GM'er myself (retired after 34 years) I must say I would not leave the company with the benefits that you recieve. I know the future sometimes looks grim in the auto industry, but it has always been that way, in the early 80's during the oil embargo it seemed like I would never have steady employment with GM, then in the 90's it was a boon era, too much overtime. I don't know you entire situation, single, married, children, but I can tell you this, as you get older you will see how important the benefits alone you recieve from the company are worth all of the agony you deal with at the present. My suggestion to you would be to try to establish yourself with another airbrush artist or even try to establish your own business, by keeping your employment with GM you will ALWAYS have that to keep yourself established if your own business doesn't work out. Brushbyair ( Lansing 652)

Brushbyair,

I'm abot an hour east of you over in Grand Blanc (just south of Flint) and work at the Truck and Bus (Local 598 formerly 651, 594, and 5960 LOL) plant there. Things are really getting screwy and my gut is telling me to get out and take this buyout. I been doing this as a side gig for a few years now and turn down more work than I actually do, so initial clientèle is there.

With that new two-tier agreement and the shady things my local is doing these days, man, I am just tired of the uncertainty and mistrust. I been there 13+ years and never seen the things going on like they are now. It ain't the work, I can work and am not scared in the least by laboring my body....been doing it since I was 13 yrs old in one capacity or another. Your point of view on this strikes close to me because you know what I am thinking I am sure after 30+ years in the shop.

My fear is of getting to near 30 years in the plant and having it all goto hell. We've lost about 200,000 UAW jobs since I hired in in 1995 and that number ain't moving north....at least at the 1st tier wages or permanent employee status level. I feel the writing is on the wall with things to come ala Dick Dauch and American Axle. I wouldn't be shocked to see it happen in the next contract actually.

Thanks for the input. I highly apreciate it and am delighted a fellow shoprat could chip in some advice.

Gary

[dungeonworks]

Originally Posted by Diaz Dezine

I'm really gonna have to agree with Brush here Gary.
The benefits, the 401k and being in a union, I just don't know if I would leave all that. Also don't know what your family situation is at home either and wether you have any dependents or not.
Now grant it, I left my job in Ohio, whirlpool corp., and it was good bene's, 401k, and very good pay also, at least for that region, but I was very young and they also gave me a year to come back if things didn't work out.
My wife and I were very fortunate to land very good jobs in the beginning. Her in human resources in a major company and I landed a great job in a custom paint shop for , a then, major player in the custom motorcycle industry.
By the time I left that job I was able to establish enough contacts to go at it on my own but I also have my wife to support me with my decision to go at bymyself and she also had the bene's, the 401k and decsent paycheck. Otherwise I don't think I would have done it alone.
Out here in AZ there is the potential to start your own business at something like this mainly because there is year round riding weather for MC's, all terrain vehicles, great dry climate for hotrods and also alot of money out here,, but I've seen alot of artists crash and burn because of too much competition or not enough planning or just plain not enough money to get it started let alone to keep it goin'.
Obviously you are from the north east and the competition for this type of work is not as thick as it is here but there also isn't the type of people that make the money to spend on custom stuff like this or believe me I would go back to Ohio surrounded by family and friends and a lucrative custom airbrush business.
I'm not saying it can't be done but starting this type of business kind of needs a little of all the planets to align and a descent chunk of cash for equipment, material, marketing, getting completely legal and also insurance, not only for medical purposes but for the establishment that run your business out of.
Not trying to talk you out of being an airbrush artist but just establishing slowly with water in the pool and not just dry concrete. Which you seem smart enough for that not to happen being with the type of questions you are asking and great questions they are and also a great topic to discuss.
Hopefully others will join in on this discussion because this a great subject.
Good luck Gary with whatever you decide and do and hopefully we will see you and some of your work here soon!
DIAZ

Diaz

The thing with the buyout, I would be able to buy down most of my payments (home related anyways) and have cash on hand to get things rolling since I already have 90% of what I need. I also have a some outlets for new work as well. As far as my situation, I'm married with 3 kids hence the medical insurance worry. If it were myself, I would have been gone looong ago!!!

As I mentioned, I have been doing it on the side for awhile now....maybe 5 yrs. I know that is vastly different than full time and the labors that come with that as well as the luxury of turning down work I don't want to do with certain people I don't want to deal with. Up here by Flint, I am just outside the Detroit burbs, just outside Flint, and less than an hour south of Saginaw. Lots of bikers in this area, but I don't solely focus on bikes as I do murals and other stuff too. I also have an outlet on the internet that I get work from too. Soon, I will have another webpage, which my past one did me some good and some harm. Dungeonworks isn't very marketable towards the mother's wanting fluffy bunnies and teddy bears on a baby's bedroom wall! That will be changed very shortly.

Like I was saying, my gut feeling on the future of what is presently a good job will become "just another job" and I am seeking some more control of my own destiny. I am not near making up my mind on this by a long shot and seriously appreciate you all's input on this, warts and all. I have not had to pay for medical insurance in over 13 yrs and am scared to find out what it is for decent coverage for a family of 5.

Thanks again
Gary

[aixguy]

Not in your situations at all but have changed carrers. However my switch was to something that would make me more money and still provide the benifits. My wife was working full time then as well. She is now no longer working (taking some time off) and wants the best heath insurance that money can buy, not that it is all the great. This cost is $620 a month for one adult. You will no longer be in a "Group" so even the cheap stuff is not cheap anymore. If I were you, I would look for a new day job with benifits, take the buy out and pay down your debts and keep painting as a side job. Of course I am not the kind of person that would want the responsability of running my own business.. you on the other hand my like that. At the very least you need to have acurate health insurance quotes for the family and know what all the rest of your living expenses will be, if you think you can swing that evey month with room to spare, take some business classes get the business plan together and go for it.
Good luck in whatever you do!

[brushbyair]

Gary, you mention things going south at your plant, remember that as a senority employee you have the right to relocate if things go south at your facility, I watched many employees move to different plants that had senority to do so when they decided to shut down the three assembly lines in Lansing, some recieved major bonuses to move to plants out of state (relocation fund) in the nieboorhood of $60,000.00. I certainly would not tell you what to do, but I must stress the importance of the benefit package you get from GM, even as bad as it has deteriated from what it used to be, it is still one of the best around, and in todays world one medical issue without insurance can totally bust a family for life. I know the temtation of working on your own and not having to take crap from some piss poor boss looks wonderful, but it all comes back to the BENEFITS to me, if you can establish them somehow I say go for it, but make sure you secure those benefits first, as Aixguy stated $650.00 for a single adult, you will be looking at something around $1800.00 to $3000.00 a month to keep your family covered as they are now with your benefit package.

[KDSilverBrush]

Gary, I don't know if this is possible, but seems to me, if you just downsize your time with GM, like go part time, if they do that, and part time with your new business, ya may be able to build the new business that way untill you are at a place that the insureance cost wouldn't be a problem, plua puttting a bit asside for retirement. Just a thought.

[theairbrushguy]

The most popular quesiton ever! Everyone had their own experiences and therefore their own opinions, but as the folks have said, numbers dont lie. I am fortunate as my (and my family's ins) is provided by my wifes employer. That's 1700 a month, with our daughter. As for retirement and other beni's they went down the tubes when I started this 20+ years ago. I try to contribute on my own every month when available, but it is not every month. Its a tough decision. Family comes first. Like previously mentioned, put a strong effort in establishing yourself while keeping the regular gig. Not just a part time fun thing, but for the goal of being secure enough to make the jump. Better to take a bit of additional time now and have a proven base to start with, than to just jump in and regret it later. Maybe try to hook up with another painter and build up that way on a part time thing, doing work for someone else's shop before you decide to open you own. Get a feel for what the business flow is like, cash intake is like etc....
Good luck whatever you chose and keep us in the loop.
TABG

Airpower Art Studio

[dungeonworks]

Thanks for the advice everyone. That's the type of info I was looking for. I am not really in a "do it now or die" situation so much as there is an opportunity. Like I said, the benefits and pay a great at GM now, but the way things are falling out on the union and management side of things these days, it doesn't take a Doctorate level brain to see the writing on the wall of things to come. I won't go into the whole shop politics and management fiasco's since that isn't my point or on the topic I was after...but they are still factors none the less.

Thanks again everyone.

Gary

[honeybear]

Hi Gary,

I have not seen you around the AB forums for years and years. I'm glad to see you are still around. Wondered what happened to you when you dropped out.

The economy is shrinking at the moment and most likely continue to shrink for a while. People may still by a motorcycle, but a custom paint job can wait until better times.

If I were in your shoes I'd be squirreling away as much money as I could for the eventual departure from your job. With a good nest egg you'd feel much better about your situation and in a good position to launch your new business.

Anyway, best of luck with what ever you decided to do.

Regards,
Jerry

Originally Posted by dungeonworks

Thanks for the advice everyone. That's the type of info I was looking for. I am not really in a "do it now or die" situation so much as there is an opportunity. Like I said, the benefits and pay a great at GM now, but the way things are falling out on the union and management side of things these days, it doesn't take a Doctorate level brain to see the writing on the wall of things to come. I won't go into the whole shop politics and management fiasco's since that isn't my point or on the topic I was after...but they are still factors none the less.

Thanks again everyone.

Gary

[Airbrushkid]

Gary the way things are this country right now I would say stay with the good job and benefits. Heres a question. How many others in your area airbrush for a living? Do you see a lot of custom work in your area? Do you have a lot of people asking for airbrush work? And I mean a lot. Sorry to say but I seen a lot of guys start then close its not easy. I'm lucky I've been doing it for 20 years.

[melt]

ok when i leave my job to do trucking bout 6 years ago it was hard...but an old man ask me "are you single?" i told him no i have a wife and one child.I will never forget his reply to my answer..IF you go to do the trucking and fail remember your wife and child fail also..with does words he give me a mind set to move forward and knock wood I never when back to work for anyone yet...
So think hard have a backup plan and most of all think about your family and do what make you happy..

[melt]

by the way ....studying the way the country going people would not spend alot of money on painting like before so hold on on your job and do it on a side....when the right time comes you will know...good luck

[dungeonworks]

Thanks again for the input everyone. Still have yet to decide, but after seeing the *ahem* "settlement" that American Axle sat out for over 2 months on strike for, well....time for other options because GM's (my) time is coming.

[Kaiilla]

GARY,
BEfore you take the step out the door, do yourself a favor (if you haven't already).

Write up a 5 year business plan and how you will achieve those goals. The biggest problem for any business is getting customers. The second biggest is keeping them.

You don't want to go for about 6 to 8 months, have finished all the work you saw available as you started your business and now have no income stream.

You have to have a MARKETING SYSTEM to stay in business.

Good luck!

[hairbag]

best advice i can offer is use the tools you have and always get 50% down before you start any job. the airbrush is incredibly diverse and can be used in numerous ways. portraits, signs, automotive graphics, textiles, murals, photo retouching and even tanning........ use it for what ever you think can to make money.

95% of the artists i know all have job's of some sort. so keep the job until it gets in the way of your painting business. the fulltime job funds are also a very handy way of quickly increasing the gear/paint/supplies you'll need. i've spent 10's of 1000's on materials and equipment over the years and most of it was bought with slave labour/job money.

its gonna be tough at times, i think its how i came up with my name "starving studios"

[Ispray]

Gary, you need to look at the whole picture now. We don't know all thats going on with you financially. Can you afford to go a couple of weeks a month without income for the next few years? if GM ships the jobs out what would the impact be to your business,could you or would you be able to pack up and move? Do you have the education degrees to get another good paying job if needed. If you needed to find a job right now whats available to you thats not a minium paying job and would you get the job?
Hate to say don't chase your dream but don't give up the familys security by jumping off the boat early. Insurance is not cheap, do you want your kids to go to college, if you do have to get a minium paying job are you going to be better off. How many times will someone hire you if you keep quitting them when you do get a painting job? is your wife able or willing to get a job? What if you get hurt and can't paint? Lots of things to think about so get it right for you and your family. Staying with GM you could be relocated, transfered to another plant,put in the jobs bank, remember your 13 years is more than others in GM plants so you would be able to get your 30yrs in to retire and keep the benefits and have a income. I also retired from GM T&B Pontiac, so I know how they treat you. Whatever you and your family choose I wish you the best.

[foe]

WOW ......Gary ..you and I are singing off the same song page. I got 12 years in at Mack Trucks local 677 and and exactly what your saying I'm going thru. Ever since Volvo bought Mack there driving it into the ground to eliminate the competition. We are not going to be offered a buyout.......what the heck we don't even have a contract since Oct. 2007 and there not even negotiating. This week is going to be a big announcement on the future and it don't look good. I'm afraid I'm going to see the last Mack being built. Not something I bargained for. I'm not planning on a painting business anytime soon but have all the same issues with loosing health coverage and an honest wage. If not mistaken there is a Federal law that entitles you to a Full year of unemployment benefits and 2 Years of schooling due to plant closure or relocation out of the country. You may want to look into that. Brother I know exactly how you feel in this situation.....Mack Trucks aren't even Mack trucks anymore they are a Volvo with a "Bulldog" on the Hood.....how pitiful can it get. The country is becoming a service oriented country......painting is a service......something you want to get into!! In 5 years or less the Auto/Trucking Industries are going to be in RUINS. I am not a risk taker but like you said the writing is on the wall. If I had the years experience in painting I would try. I know one thing ....most Go Getters seem to succeed. What would have happened if Bill Gates wouldn't have taken a chance. So you know what I say?? Take that buyout and go out there and show them GREEDY CORPORATE BASTARDS what your made of BROTHER ....Go out there and succeed because I know you will.... show them that you ARE THE MAN ..as they pack there bags for China. Go get em Brother and the BEST OF LUCK to you!!!!! Jim

[zero420]

this is a question that im sure alot of us that want this serious will come to if it was time to for me to answer this question my answer would be i would to both yes it is very hard and both jobs can take alot of extra time but in my opinion time is something to sacrafice for now until im sure weather to leave one or the other
ill sleep when im dead is what my girl told me when we 1st got together and 5 yrs later she has everything she wanted to do just by sacraficeing her time in our 5 yrs together she has held 2 jobs the police academy and jonh jay university at this time she works graveyard for jc police and works mornings shift at her other job as a therapist she has shown me that with determination one can do what they want and she is my liveing proof of that so with all that in mind my decision would be to do both until i feel i cant no more or im in a better situation to make that decision weather to just brush or stay at my current job and when i say confertable i also mean finacialy just my 2 cents

zero420

[Bluemoon58]

Originally Posted by dungeonworks

Hey all,

I have an opportunity to launch my airbrushing/custom painting into a full time operation and am seeking some advice on a few things as I ponder doing this. The major hu