Guess which one

All four of these where created with different airbrushs, same paint Golden Carbon Black straight out of the bottle. I penciled in some loops on each to give you some prespective. The four airbrushs where


Iwata BCS Eclipse - 0.5 mm needle, nozzle combination

Iwata HP-CS - .35mm needle, nozzle combination

Iwata Mircon B - .18 mm nozzle, needle combination

Sata 3 - 0.25 nozzle, needle combination



Tell me which airbrush created which panel?


This in response to all the questions we get about rendering fine lines, detail work and which airbrush is best. Can you tell the difference in the four examples I just posted, which airbrush was used?

I'm not asking for your opion which brand or model is best for detail, the airbrushs I used just happen to be handy it could have been a Badger 150, Passche VL these four airbrushs where just the airbrushs I had hooked up to my compressor when I did this.

I'm simply asking you to take a look at the example and by the size of the lines tell me which airbrush did which. All four have different size noozles, needles one is a bottom feed others are gravity feed.

The point I'm trying to make is its not the airbrush, nozzle or needle size, brand or model its the hand that controls the airbrush that renders the fine line or detail.

[C&C Custom Air]

Thats a scarey one to answer. I do not think there is a right answer to this.
Everyone has diff. tastes - kind of like chevy/ford. I just tried out my AB Turbo and have found that to blow away my others. But thats my opinion and Im sure there are others that would say totally diff about it.
If the things are made for fine detail then they all should produce it, so just finding the one that is comfortable for you should do.
As for guessing - no guess from me. But good lines though

I rephased my orginal question in the orginal post maybe what I was asking was not clear. I'm not looking for you to endorse one brand or model over another.
I agree the turbo is a great airbrush I personally get more enjoyment out of using my airbrush than working on it, adjusting it so my turbo sits in a box most of the time

[MaxPower]

Is 'C' the BCS?

[aixguy]

I was thinking maybe C was the Micron since carbon black is a bit heavy on the pigment and a .18 nozzle might not like that straight from the bottle.

[MaxPower]

The other thought I had was that C might be the one with the finest nozzle (is that the mircon) and to get the line the same thickness, he had to hold the brush further from the paper to get the line the same thickness as the others. This could explain why the lines aren't as dark? Or that the lines doen't look as smooth as the others?

Either way I get the point. It just means I have to practice a lot more

[Snuff]

I'm not even going to attempt a guess 'cuz I've done really fine stuff with all 4 of mine (3 different brands) and if I didn't know which one did which I could'nt tell 'em
apart.
IT'S NOT THE MACHINE........ IT'S THE MAN BEHIND IT!!!!!

Great way to illustrate the point Don!

[gtech]

A - Iwata HP-CS
B - Iwata BCS Eclipse
C - Iwata Micron B
D - Sata3

That's my guest...

Gilles

[gixster92]

very good point, one I have heard before but never seen. I choose not to guess since i never spray anything but my brush which isn't mentioned in your test. I would like you to change some of the makers and see if you get the same results ( I am sure you will but nice to see others then Iwata (we already know they are good), but use a pasche, richpen, badge and a harbor frieght knockoff.

Originally Posted by gixster92

very good point, one I have heard before but never seen. I choose not to guess since i never spray anything but my brush which isn't mentioned in your test. I would like you to change some of the makers and see if you get the same results ( I am sure you will but nice to see others then Iwata (we already know they are good), but use a pasche, richpen, badge and a harbor frieght knockoff.

There is no reason you can't try this yourself is there?

As I orginally stated

"I'm not asking for your opion which brand or model is best for detail, the airbrushs I used just happen to be handy it could have been a Badger 150, Passche VL these four airbrushs where just the airbrushs I had hooked up to my compressor when I did this."


I personally don't endorse any brand airbrush but airbrushing as an art forum.
You would see no difference if I used a VL, Badger 150 (I don't buy knock off airbrushs so I can't speak to the others).

Please give it a try and see how you make out. It's just meant to be a fun food for thought thread.

[C&C Custom Air]

It all seems like whatever you use and get used to can do pretty much anything for detail etc.. with diff. nozzles and adjustments.
I do agree, I have been using that Turbo over the weekend giving it a good try and do see this thing slowly making its way back to the box. That is one tempermental brush but I had to try it out. Im not endorsing any of them, just trying to find a comfortable one, which is why I ordered needles for the turbo because I had it forever and never gave it a go.


"I agree the turbo is a great airbrush I personally get more enjoyment out of using my airbrush than working on it, adjusting it so my turbo sits in a box most of the time" = This is so true...

There are alot of great artist that use the turbo and nothing but, Myles Pinkney
http://mylespinkney.com

for one but if you check his turbo out he has spent alot of time setting it up so it works as he wants it to. He has replaced to handle and done alot of other mods to ensure it stays adjusted. So it can be done I just haven't found the time to do it with mine, someday as its a very cool brush to use. Check his work out.

[C&C Custom Air]

Wow - I have heard that name before (most likely from here), Those are excellent. Nice BIO on him there. He leaves nothing to the mind - its all there detailed. I like his styles. There is really to many words to say how good his art is. Could fill pages up on each picture.
I dont want to pull away from your original question. I put his site on my favorites so I can check it more on my lunch break.
Im surprised paasche did not remodel it to match his..LOL

[landsbro]

well,,here's my guess,,i don't have a clue though,, took a look at the
product preview to see what kind of needles the ab 's had,,
to be honest it didn't help

A= sata
B= BCS Eclips
C=Micron B
D= HP-CS

/kimmo

Iwata BCS Eclipse - 0.5 mm needle, nozzle combination

Iwata HP-CS - .35mm needle, nozzle combination

Iwata Mircon B - .18 mm nozzle, needle combination


Sata 3 - 0.25 nozzle, needle combination

here is the correct airbrush, loop but do your best to take a guess before looking at the answer please.AIRBRUSH, LOOP

[landsbro]

He,,he,, i new it,,couldn't be more wrong,
it was a tough one Don,,
/kimmo

[gtech]

LOL, I didn't check the size of the nozzle, I just went with my feeling and my memory. But I thought that the BCS had a smaller nozzle like a .3

But it was a hard shot. I'm a bit surprised about the BCS and the CS...

Gilles

[redneck]

I was going to guess that order based on the alphabet but thought that would be too easy

sandstone ray

[Stephen Casey]

Ha ha what timing! Thanks Don Johnson. I am buying D very soon and that is the one I liked best. At least for cutting edge sharpness in thin and thick. Thanks.

Point well made though, the greatest factor is the artist and their acclimation to the particular tool in hand. I can sculpt clay with $300 worth of tools in front of me or I can break up some plastic diner wear and sculpt with the fragments and achieve the same result. Good tools will speed up the process though.

p.s. Please upload higher resolution images next time. Zoomed in these images blur quickly.

[Stephen Casey]

Bye the way Don your sites and mags look awesome. I'll soon at least pick up a couple of the paper issues...

[Dan]

Hi Don

I know I haven't posted in a while.
I use to paint backdrops for a school play my kids went to using house paints and a brush. People would ask me how long it took. My answer was, "about 30 years." If I can find them I'll post pictures of them.

Dan Bizzaro

HI Dan
Hope all is well. Sounds cool love to see the pictures.

[LeeAnn]

Don~
I appreciate the point you were trying to make. Its good to know that I have control over the ab. As a beginner, little tips like this make a difference.
Thanks!

[Icewolf0927]

This is a great post Don. it just goes to show you that it doesn't matter what airbrush you have you can pretty much do anything with it as long as you know how to use it.

[xzotic ink]

BEFORE i look at the answer im saying eclipse is B,,,now ill look,,i use that gun all the time and im confident in the answer,,,,,,,,

[xzotic ink]

dam it,,i was so sure,,okay im wrong,,oops,,,ive been thinking for a long time getting the micron series,,i think it takes practice and practice to get a fine control detail down,,but a smaller nozzle tip should help too,,

[xzotic ink]

DON THIS IS A GREAT POST,,,,AND ICE ,,i use to dish out my money to anyone who said "THIS IS THE YOUR ANSWER TO AIRBRUSHING,,,BUY THIS TO AIRBRUSH LIKE THE PROS,,,TAKE THIS 1000,00 GUN AND YOU WILL AB PERFECTO" yep i use to be a sucker when i first started,,and might still be,,,cant help it,,im a sucker when i hear THE WORDS IMPROVE YOUR AB SKILLS,, IT IS JUST REALLY PRACTICE,,i asked diaz this very same question months ago on what gun he uses for his fine detail,,i was ready to dish my money out again,,and he told me 'PRACTICE IS HOW YOU DO IT" its so true,,,BY THE WAY THANKS DIAZ,,even thou i still want to fall for the micron series,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,lol,,,SORRY,,i want god dam fine tiny detail i cant help it,,,it eats me up!!!!!

[Tuesday]

I see your point Don. You can give a $1200 Airbrush an intermediate and do very ordinary work with it. Or you can give a $60 Airbrush to an expert and work wonders with it.

[Silver]

Originally Posted by donjohnson

All four of these where created with different airbrushs, same paint Golden Carbon Black straight out of the bottle. I penciled in some loops on each to give you some prespective. The four airbrushs where


Iwata BCS Eclipse - 0.5 mm needle, nozzle combination

Iwata HP-CS - .35mm needle, nozzle combination

Iwata Mircon B - .18 mm nozzle, needle combination

Sata 3 - 0.25 nozzle, needle combination



Tell me which airbrush created which panel?


This in response to all the questions we get about rendering fine lines, detail work and which airbrush is best. Can you tell the difference in the four examples I just posted, which airbrush was used?

I'm not asking for your opion which brand or model is best for detail, the airbrushs I used just happen to be handy it could have been a Badger 150, Passche VL these four airbrushs where just the airbrushs I had hooked up to my compressor when I did this.

I'm simply asking you to take a look at the example and by the size of the lines tell me which airbrush did which. All four have different size noozles, needles one is a bottom feed others are gravity feed.

The point I'm trying to make is its not the airbrush, nozzle or needle size, brand or model its the hand that controls the airbrush that renders the fine line or detail.

If i were to take a guess and all the lines were with the gun the same didtance away from the paper i would guess the .35=D .25=B .18=C .05=A Ihope i'm even close LOL Silver

[Airbrush Dreams]

Here is my thoughts (A) HP-CS (B) Eclipse (C) Micron (D) Sata 3. I tried to determine them not by line thickens, but by the hardness of the edge. Meaning the larger the needle the more over spray there will be so long as they were all used at the same air pressure.

Please jump on it and give this a try yourself and post your results

[Monni]

I cant praise this post enough, as you Don have made me restore my fighting prime.

More than 6 months ago when I bought my first decent airbrush (badger 100 LG F) I really didnt know what I was getting, but was deadset that I would instantly jump the gun and shoot lines thinner than spiderweb. The first thing I painted was a leatherjacket and its been shown up here aswell, but eventough I was fairly pleased with it I still felt that the airbrush "wouldnt let me" do as much detail as I would have liked.
After a few more paintings I was getting fustrated about it and was blaming either brush, paint viscosity and/or wrong pressure settings.
It got to the point where I was thinking that is nigh impossible to freehand sharpness as all of my images had a blurry feel and I was just moments ago still contemplating about getting a 3-4 times more expensive brush - but no longer.

This post made me realize to spend less time wondering about shortcuts and gave me a good reason to hone my mechanical skills rather than buying a new brush.

Thank you.

[CANONFUJI]

OK Don.
My question is, if you can basically achieve the same fine detailed line with a airbrush that cost $112.00 to one that would cost $400.00. regardless of the brand, why would you spend the extra cash for the same results? Or is the difference in the atomization also controle of the air brush.

[don johnson]

"difference in the atomization also controle of the air brush"



The point is if you don't have the skill a $1000.00 will do you no good :-)

Practice, practice (just a general statement directed to no one person)

You tell me Airbrush Artist Harry Did It! check his art work out, all done with a binks single action airbrush thats old as the hills. Can you tell that the paint atomization was different in Harry's work verus's any of the present day airbrush artist out there using a $600.00 airbrush? Harry is just one example there are many more.

I can't.

The thread is just meant to make you think hopefully and move out of your comfort zone with your airbrush reaching for new heights.

It's just paint after all :-)

[CANONFUJI]

Thanks for the insight Don.
As the saying goes, practice makes perfect.

[chet]

NIce post. Although im newly back to airbrushig there are a few things that keep gettin me...like everyones use of "AB" for airbrushing....I always think paasche AB turbo when I read that (which is my fav brush ) Now all ya got to do Don is get a REAL AB and add that to your loops so these peeps can see some REALLY fine lines hehe. Something that does need be pointed out is that just about any brush can be made to work like just about any other brush with respect to line quality and size....As Don points out it all depends on the artits skill in using the tool but there ARE tools that are better suited for certain aspects of airbrushing.....large feed apatures for heavy paints ...an AB Trubo for the finest detail, a mounted cup vs a jar feed (would you use a mounted cup for a prodution tshirt enviroment? sure you could but why?) Kudos Don