Stupid Questions

To all those new to airbrushing reading this I just thought I'd let you know what are great group of folks we have here willing to help you get over the dot, line, dagger stroke thing. There are no stupid questions so don't be shy need help please ask away.

[jeeptuff]

Well then, I'll shoot at this one, I am having a horrible time with the dagger stroke. I lock my wrists, elbows in, not to tight, air on, start paint flow close to surface, more paint as I gradually move from surface, depending whether or not I am going fat to thin or thin to fat. I just can't seem to get a good taper to my
this stroke. I have tried speeding up the initial distance from the surface as well as the horizontal speed. I hope you can understand this, it's late. I have used up a whole newsprint pad over the last two weeks trying to figure this one out..

[gixster92]

yes those daggers are hard....

If you get the online subscription, don put an excellent video on this very topic.

Hope this helps.

<edited mine, who am I to go against Darla>

darla, I watched Don's video again. and there seems to be two excellent ABers that do their Daggers two different ways.

Don's method varies the distance from the surface and yours keeps static. So I guess whatever works best for you is what you go with. As you can see here, there are to excellent and seasoned ABers that get the same effect two seperate ways.

OK!! Don-- we've got 2 bites on stupid!! --fellows, you're not thinking, & because of that you cannot possibly complete a sword stroke!! It has nothing to do with how far away you are from your work..& God forbid that you would vary this distance, going in & out & back & forth--Oh my!!--#1.. Take a deep breath. #2.. Face forward in front of your work--tall & straight (good posture is critical for sucess). Feet slightly apart. There should be no movement in your legs up to your waist (you're not going to dance!!). Hold your elbows loosely at your waist (not too tight).There will be some movement in your arms, but very little in your wrists. #3..Aim your airbrush at anything in front of you. #4.. Without moving your hips & keeping your belly button faced forward, pivot your upper torso left & right, & up & down, (just to loosen up--Ohh! when your 60 that feels good!!). Now is when you must start to think!! If you are not moving your legs, & you're not moving your arms, & your wrists are almost ridgid, anywhere you move your torso the airbrush will have to follow..anywhere you can point that airbrush, & operate it without moving anything except your torso has now become your working area & you are ready to think out a sword stroke..Are you with me??--that's what you have to do-- think it out!! #5.. Make a dot, (shoot--make a dozen, I love dots!!) Just before that dot starts to spider out move it one way or the other in order to start a line. When that line has reached the length you want, push trigger forward to stop the flow of paint, (DO NOT stop the AIR FLOW)..what I believe you're not understanding is that while you are stopping the flow of paint, you can continue movement of your line (just a little ways), & if you still have air flow the residue paint left in the brush will taper to a beautiful sword tip, narrowing all the way until the residue finally runs out..AGAIN--When you turn your paint flow off while still moving your airbrush, the air flow forces the residue out, tapering the residue paint to a tip..I think that's as simple as I can teach it..Good luck!!

[Vizion]

Darla, You make it sound so simple.. I have been trying to get this stroke down for weeks and I think that I have a good handle on it now and you are right as to how to perform this stroke but it takes alot of practice. But thanks for explaining it to us simple minded people. At first I was trying to move into and away from my artwork to get it to work but that never seemed to look just right. I still have a hard time making real short and small daggers. I think that the longer ones are easier so I think I will continue to practice these strokes until I can master the shorter ones.

Vizion

[gtech]

Darla and Don, after reading your posts about how to do dagger strokes, Darla's way reminded me of Pamela Shanteau's method in her book.

She doen't explain it the same way, but she does the same way.

The difference it makes when you use one method or the other is that the finer part of the stroke is darker when you move closer while pushing back the trigger forward for to stop the paintflow. And when keeping the distance the same, that smaller end of the stroke is not as dark, and it kind of stop more smoothly.

So my humble opinion as a beginner is that there seems to have 2 schools for dagger strokes, and both produce a different kind of dagger stroke.

And I don't say that one is better than the other one. Just different.

Gilles

I think Don & I probably do have different styles, but the outcome is the same.. I think a sword or dagger stroke is just the way you decide to finish a line..everything starts with a dot, & then becomes a line that finishes off either blunt or sword stroke..I suppose short, squatty strokes would be dagger, & if they're longer it would make them sword strokes..anything over 3-4 inches is just a line & then you decide how to end it..I don't mean to imply I'm stiff as a board--I have a lot of body movement, but it's mostly upper torso..you can try to make a dinner plate size circle following a charcoal line-- 1st. try it with your arms following the line & you will wiggle all over, then try to only move your torso as you follow the line, & I think you will see a lot of difference..The more experience & expertise you have the more you can move your body about.. Here's another practice sheet for you to examine.. You can finish any stroke with either blunt (turning both the paint & air flow off) or sword stroke (turning off paint flow & dragging residue paint with air on). The plain fact is that you must start a stroke & then finish it.. I think you have 2 choices & they both serve a purpose..happy practicing!!

Think of a can of spray paint for example the only way you can reduce the area being covered while spraying paint is to move the can closer to the surface (or use masking). The further away you are from the surface when spraying a line with a spray can the wider the line will be the closer you move the can to the surface the narrower the line will become, it will cover a smaller area. If you hold a spray can two inches from the surface all the way across even if you let up on the spray can button slightly appling less paint the line will not become narrower just fainter. The only thing that will change how wide the line is, moving the can closer to the surface.

Its the same with an airbrush if you hold an airbrush two inches from the surface while spraying the whole way down the paper the line will be the same size all the way across. At two inches from the surface all the way acrossed reducing the amount of paint you are applying will not make the line become narrower, fainter yes but not narrower. Now hold your airbrush two inches from the surface - air on - start moving your airbrush, start applying paint- as move acrossed the page making your line reduce the distance you are from the surface so by the end of a 12 inch line you have gone from two inches away to a quarter inch from the surface. What you end up with is a mess.

just kidding

you end up with a line that is very wide where you where two inches away from the surface and very narrow where you where a quarter inch away from the surface, try it - go very slowly start at two inches from the paper acrossed the page down to a quarter inch from the paper, SLOWLY all the way acrossed from far away and big (two inches) to small and narrow (quarter inch) away from the paper

now as you move from two inches to a quarter inch reduce the amount of paint you are applying- if you don't it will spider on you, the closer you are the less paint you apply as you are covering a smaller area


practice real big at first, get a grip on this than reduce the size as you become comfortable doing them big

it works for me but experitment and see what works best for you if we all can do it you certainly can

have fun

Here is a stupid Q: for you auto AB's. I do paint on fabric and want to expand to include autos, I see alot of talk about "sanding" the surface. I've got all the issues of AA Magazine and see the featured artist sanding the surface to be painted. Are they just taking off the finish?, Are they scuffing the clearcoat?
Im not really sure what and how much sanding is going on. Hey Don, maybe someone can do an article on just the sanding aspect of a job.
Thanks, Lou (cowboy)

[witchybronco]

thanks Darla &Don, I have never been able to do much freehand work except back grounds. The descriptions you have just done have inspired me to try it again.

As soon as $able, I''l order the magazine

[aixguy]

Originally Posted by cowboy

Here is a stupid Q: for you auto AB's. I do paint on fabric and want to expand to include autos, I see alot of talk about "sanding" the surface. I've got all the issues of AA Magazine and see the featured artist sanding the surface to be painted. Are they just taking off the finish?, Are they scuffing the clearcoat?
Im not really sure what and how much sanding is going on. Hey Don, maybe someone can do an article on just the sanding aspect of a job.
Thanks, Lou (cowboy)

Like you, I have not expanded to tin, other than steel tags, but hear the answer to your particular question. They are sanding the clear coat that has been put over the base coat. Sanding is done with 600 or 800 Grit (US) wet/dry paper (usually wet I think) to produce a finish that the art work will stick to. Any courser grade paper would leave sanding scratches that will show in the next layer of clear, any finer would not leave enough "Tooth" for the art work paint to stick. There is a book worth of stuff to learn when it comes to this area of work, unless you are going to let someone else do the prep/paint/sand (you do art) they do the rest of the finsh. Problem with this is you don't know the qualtity of work that the ("they") did, and your art work could come pealing off if the prep under the base was bad..
I am sure others with expertise in this area will add to this, hop it helped a little.
Doug

Thanks Doug, I"m hoping to do a whole job myself mainly for the reasons you were saying. I hate having to rely on someone else to prep or finish when it comes to something like this.

[quickchange]

Ok I have another question.

The tags that you see that are pre-painted. I have seen them at shows and also in the markets where they stick the vinyl letters to them? How are they done?

Airbrushed, screened etc. They are just tooooo perfect and exact to be done by hand. I maybe new to this game, but I can't see any artist doing that type of detail for someone else to take the credit.

I tried to find a wholesaler for these with not much luck. I paint my own, but the curiosity is driving me nuts.

[aixguy]

Hi Quick, I tried painting one of these and you are right, these are not painted by hand. Silk Screen or some type of robotic paint machine I would guess.

[quickchange]

Hello my friend...

The ones I am referring to are being represented as his airbrushed tags. Then he hand letters them with one shot. I have seen some of the same designs on other sites for sale. Guess that is why the question came up.

Well maybe someone will know how they are done. I don't necessarily want to do them, but just like to know cause I am nosey.

Guess I better get busy and do something, even if it is wrong. LOL

[theblackbyrd]

here is a good one i cant find an answer for. i am a newbie. i have a double action paache brush and want to mix watercolor from the tube to play with. what is the ratio of water to medium for airbrush use?
also what is a good waste paper to experiment on? i have large newsprint but it just seems to bead up and splatter. i try to keep the brush clean, etc.
also when putting the needle back into the brush after cleaning, how far out or in should it be to be in th e corrrect position?
These are such STUPID questions that none of the books i have talk about it.
Thanks!!!

[aixguy]

Originally Posted by theblackbyrd

here is a good one i cant find an answer for. i am a newbie. i have a double action paache brush and want to mix watercolor from the tube to play with. what is the ratio of water to medium for airbrush use?

Never used water color but rule of thumb for other paints is your paint should be the viscosity of milk

also what is a good waste paper to experiment on? i have large newsprint but it just seems to bead up and splatter. i try to keep the brush clean, etc.

I would think anything you would normaly use to paint water color on would work.
also when putting the needle back into the brush after cleaning, how far out or in should it be to be in th e corrrect position?

The needle goes all the way in until it contacts the seat (nozzle) and then the thumb screw is tightened.

These are such STUPID questions that none of the books i have talk about it.
Thanks!!!

Hope this helps
Doug

[webwizz]

erm i kinda new to this and 16 so i saved up and bought ia TC2000 and im worried and wondering (ive got a iwata eclipse bcs and createx) whats the benefiet of getting the tank version of the tc2000 the tc5000 it looks very easy to uprgrade and if looked at photos on google images and it just looks like the black circle thingy is rearanged ive forgotin the name but im wondering should i do it is it really easy im not so sure

I have no idea how easy or hard it would be to upgrade sorry can't help you there
advantage would be with a storage tank the compressor under the right conditions (using an airbrush which requires little air pressure, gravity feed) the compressor itself would not have to run as much (as often) hopefully that will extend the life of the compressor, if you using a VL which requires alot of air pressure there is problay not enough advantage to warrent doing it.

[theblackbyrd]

well i had two weeks to play with my paasche airbrush again... i need a life! what i discovered was that i had no idea about what needle i was using, what size nozzle i hd on the brush, etc.
after reading some library books (thank you library people!) and digging out the 4 page 4 language sheet of instructions that came with the airbrush, i found out that i had the wrong needle mixed up with more wrong nozzle... its not exactly spelled out in plain english...

and i pushed the needle all the way in to get better results...

now to find out why the paint i mixed a few days ago got some horrible fungus stuff growing in it... could be the baby food jars i used werent quite as clean as i thought... fortunately it was only a small amount of paint...

its fun to learn... and reading these boards do help... so please you that know more than us newbies, please keep posting....