Thread: Auto Air/ Water base paints

I don't seem to be able to find a reply to the question Nunky asked ....hey guys about the fantastic reducer codepunk and others were talking about earlier! being from england i am gonna be dumb and ask what exactly this is or is an equivalant of(windex or whatever), as i have just ordered my first few AA paints.. Does anyone have the answer?

the new auto air reducers are supposed to work the same as those cleaners people have been using, they incorperated the same wettng agent from what i understand, you should be fine using the new reducers for AA

Cheers for reply gtech.. have you tried using it?

My son bought me some Auto-Air series 4200 and I have just finished my first panel ever, which is for his scooter... It is the St. Georges flag enclosing a British Bull dog..I have attached photo.. not sure if I have done it right size... not a good photo due to reflections of finish, but son was pleased with it.

I just used tap water to reduce paint and in my ignorance did a ratio of about 7:1 and the lowest pressure I could get.. which meant I had to give it a lot of coats.

I also learnt not to use a watercolour crayon to mark out the design.. although the paint did not activate the colour, the process the garage used to laquer the panel did and the lines are visible through all the coats of paint. I also found that when I got the panel back, I had lost the colour blue off the panel, which I had used mainly on the eyes. Has anyone else found this?

Hi Gilles

I didn't heat set the paint throughout... used my hair dryer a couple of times when doing the flag, but just used the air from my ab for a few seconds to dry off areas I needed to go over a few times on the dog... do you have to heat set on an on going basis?

There is alot of good info there, cheers Chilles.

As for the climate in my part of England, it hasn't stopped raining for days, it is that wet my little dog has to swim when I let her out in the back garden.
Hope it is better in your country.

I will definately try heat setting my next piece after every coat.

Have spent ages searching, but just so many topics which side track you, can someone tell me where to go on the forum for info on using AA paints for helmets and how to clear them, including safety aspects.

Still absolutely throwing it down with rain in England, think I have shrunk 2 inches this week, I have been that wet!!!

Wendy, You sand or scuff, clean & prep, then just as gtech had stated earlier lite coats. You can use a hair dryer to heat set if needed, if the humidity is high diffinitlly heat set. I would use a dust mask while painting. As far as clearing it depends on what you want to use, start with lite coats then medium wet coats. You really want a good respirator for this part & good ventilation.

Hi first post !
hi wendy Im in the UK too.. northeast so always wet and cold...
did you try the mr muscle stuff.. Id like to use autoair too

I've been using AA for 2 years now and have been using createx reducers, Bit pricey though!!, Being from Ireland I am not familiar with "Fantastic" product. I'm sure we have a similar product here or even the same in different packaging. Anyone care to stick a pic up so I can see what it looks like. I'd love to try it out. Cheers, Ger.

Originally Posted by patoche

Hi gerard

We don't have fantastik in France too , i use "Johson wax ", called expert , it's a glass cleaner with amoniac base ( like fantastik), and it works , very , very , very well !
Whatever the label , a glass cleaner with amoniac should work well

pat

Hi Pat, Thanks for the tip. Will try a couple of things, let you know how I get on.
Ger

I shoot primarily AA these days, for a variety of reasons, but I cannot overemphasize the importance of heat setting when you need to do taping or lay vinyl masks over your artwork. I often do what you described... double guns. Only difference is I use an old hairdryer on the hottest setting to heat set mine. Every light coat gets set. Takes a little bit more time, but it's a LOT LESS time than trying to fix a lifted layer!

Maxpower thank for the info

Hey Guys/Gals, i decided to use AA paints cause i liked the idea of water based paints being sprayed inside my spare room where i will be working also cleaning up with water and not thinners also appeals to me...i have been reading a few threads in regard to using fantastic and water...i live in OZ and havn't heard of fantastic, is it a windex type cleaner and is not the AA reducer a better choice for thinning

Rabs, yes, your on the right track. It is always best to use what is recommended by the paint manufacurer. However, artists being the creative souls we are, always search for other mediums. Fantastik is indeed a glass and multipurpose cleaner. It may be known as another name where you are.

Maxpower, I am SO jealous! Learning from Richard Markham, wow, I truely envy you!!

ok so fantastik in the uk is mr muscle!!!!!!!!!

i have been using the kitchen cleaner version and it has worked fine but because i have a .25 nozzle airbrush i am still getting trouble with paint flow so i am gonna try the new 4011 as it seems like everyone recommends it. and if that fails it gives me an excuse to upgrade to iwata airbrush with slightly bigger nozzle was thinking the eclipse hp-cs

It's not the brush, it's the operator. Water based paints are a bit tickier to get to spray as solvent based paints do. You really have to reduce them a lot! Try thinning even more with the Mr. Muscle and see if that makes any difference. I would still get the 4011 reducer. It will reduce the paint, while keeping its adhesion properties intacked and not delute the pigments.

I wouldn't recommend sparaying clear indoors without a real spraybooth. There are alot of nasty chemicals in that stuff. Do a search on iso poisoning for more info. For now lets just say that that stuff can end a career in a hurry if you're not careful.
The AA paints, however, you should be fine spraying indoors, as long as you have some sort of ventilation/filtration system set up. You don't even need anything too high tech. I have a fan shroud from an old stove hooked up to a box i made with some filters inside and a vent at the other end. If you're spraying a basecoat you should wear a high quality dust mask just so you're not inhaling a bunch of particulate.

Originally Posted by 66SS327

I have been painting fire on motorcycle parts lately and have had two different paint shops have trouble with my auto-air. both shops have tried everything they know to use as degreaser before they clear and everything wants to soften and remove the paint. Today I picked up some House of Color SG-100 intercoat clear to try. I am degreasing before I paint, wearing gloves the whole process and then puting on two coats of SG-100 over the graphic to lock it in. We will see in the next day or so if this works out. This is the last idea I have to allow the painter to prep before he shoots the clear without screwing up my graphics.

66SS327, I'm not sure if this was answered or if you have already tried it, but the application guide recommends using 4004 transparent base prior to clearing. This is supposed to protect the colors and allow preparation for clearing. Since I don't know anything at all myself, I have been reading a lot, and came across this, so I thought I'd pass it on.

TeaMan

Hello All,

Some talk here about a spraybooth. I wanted to share with you my booth:

http://www.scaleautomag.com/sca/comm...TOPIC_ID=51152

This is another forum that I use since I do small scale stuff. Another question I have since I am learning (very new) and using AA is do you mix in a seperate cup thenpour it into the guns cup or mix in the guns cup I am looking for a good way to measure and mix . I know most of you do it by eye but untill I get some experience I am wanting correct measures

Cheers
Mike

Wow, a lot of info in this thread to digest. I'm using AA, and have had a bear of time getting detail, but then I have not been reducing it 70% either. I'm using the 4011 reducer, but I read on another thread to reduce it to the consistency of milk, if I thinned it 70%, it would be more like water. I already have problems with the transparent colors spidering on me. Do I want my mix thinner?

OBTW the tip dry with this stuff is maddening. I've had to take the needle protective cap off and constantly clean the needle between sprays. Does this happen when using the 50/50 fantastic mix?

Hello All,

An admitted rookie here but did my first AA stuff over the weekend. I am a bit confused about all this thinning talk. Simon sprays this stuff right out of the bottle and in fact pours the "leftovers" back in the storage bottle. I used very light coats and used a drier to remove the water from the paint. It is very easy to see when it flashes over as it takes on a dry look very quickly.

This finished and had a somewhat speckeled look to it not orange peel but not quite smooth either. I then covered with the intercoat dried it then let it set for 24 hours. I then applied AE clear starting with 2 light coats and then 4 medium coats. Let dry for 1 week and 1k grit then 15k grit a light rub out and it looked really good.

This stuff from my admitted little bit of experience does not lay down smooth but with the application of intercoat and then clear smooths out and all tightens up to form a smooth surface. I wonder if those with solivent experience are used to a smooth finish and thus are trying to reduce the colors to achieve this? I am just a rookie here but wanted to share my thoughts on this subject.

Cheers
Mike

More experimentation has provided me a little more insight.

I've used the paint straight from the bottle, and while it will spray fairly well at higher pressures (~45psi), the tip dry was very bad out of a .3 needle.

I thinned it down, way down, about 50/50 paint and 4011 (similar to the consistency of ink), and it flowed very well at about 30psi, nearly eliminated the tip dry problem and went down smooth on a porous surface (paper), but tended to spider pretty bad on a hard smooth surface. It went down very well on a base coated surface that has the AA base coat kind of sand paperish texture to it, but it will still spider if you're not careful. With the paint thinned like this, needle control and air pressure is criticial because of the spidering problem.

I like this paint overall, but at times I wish I had followed Don's advice and started with a lesser investment to learn on. However, this experience has taught me some valuable lessons about the paint I intend to use for the projects I have planned.

Probably the best thing about this paint is that it has absoutley no smell and is very easy to clean up.

R,
ILL

After I've base coated with sealer dark or white I rub it down with Abralon which is a foam backed wet and dry ( do it dry though ). This knocks back the rough texture and leaves a very nice surface. I do the same with my next colour so I have a great surface to airbrush on. I don't like the "tooth" you get without doing this.

This is especially good for the pearls etc as they can leave a very rough surface.


Hope this helps
Ashley

Originally Posted by codepunk

Bought a bunch of AA when I started painting hard surfaces. I had nothing but trouble trying to get it to work for fine detail and getting it to spray nicely. I bought some urethane and put down the AA and quit using it. A few months ago somebody turned me on to thinning it with fantastic cleaner and water and now I could not be happier with it. I now enjoy spraying it almost as much urethane and the clean up is so much easier.

hi i live in new zealand and havnt herd about fantastic cleaner i just started air brushing and i use auto air and i have trouble getting it to spray nice sometimes and was not sure what i could thin it with so i just used water but would love to use something thats better can you please tell me a bit more about this stuff thanks

Hi all. I am new to this forum and you all sound like a great bunch of people and fellow AB'rs. I am not sure if this is the exact right place to post this and I apologize if this gets long. I use AA prominently in my work. painting welding helmets, sign blanks and getting into motorcycle tanks and helmets. my most favorite artists are Mike Lavallee, not only for his flames but his portraits as well, and Steve Nunez. Steve is absolutely someones talent I aspire to achieve. Living in Edmonton Alberta Canada, I have a real hard time getting HOK or Alsa paint here. hardly any distributors and they all don't carry it but rather just order it in for you so I end up waiting anyway. I can buy it on Ebay but pay quite a hefty Duty and transportation of dangerous goods fee on it. AA is readily available and more or less easy enough to work with especially now with 4011 reducer. but still there is no comparison to the buttery smoothness of uro's. I have decided that I will just have to "make AA work for me" or rather learn to work with it and work through the small challenges (i.e. over spray, drying time and especially finding that sweet spot in reducing ratio's, I just love doing that LOL). But that make airbrushing the awe-inspiring art that it is. My question is this. Is there any truth to HOK developing a water born paint system and what are all the main big players in the custom airbrush art world going to do when they are required to go water born in 2009 like Canada is. I thought I understood that California is one of the first to go solvent free in 2009. I just don't read or hear anything from people like Craig Fraser Who seems to me, prefers Uro's. will there be a new run of instructional DVD's in the future from all these guys now applying talents to AA or other Waterborne paint systems not yet on the market. Seems like theres going to be a big change but nothing is really being said. sorry to take up your time in reading. I would just be excited to see some waterborn system that really sprays like uro's come on the market. I did my first color portrait last night on 24 X 36 Illustration board (Elvira) and it went Pretty well. just a few spray issues on the fine detail work like teeth, lips and eyes. issues I found I kept telling myself "I wouldn't have these challenges with Uro's". Thanks for sharing you thoughts.

Cheers

Mike

I have had alot of problems with the black...

This is a formula which I recieved today. I have been told it has been approved by AA as of last evening.