Thread: is there a harder choice then your 1st brush?

my 1st post

First a little background
I could draw before I could speak but I haven't done anything artistic (except computer graphics) in almost 20 years. As I got older I found I could not work a 40 hour week and do art. Work sucked the soul out of me so I have lived a soul less life for the last 20 years.

When I was active I was mostly involved with technical pens and no one made a pen that could create a fine enough dot/line to please me.

I was a detail fanatic and my fav pens were broken by most peoples standards. ( I found that by damaging the needles I could make a 0.13 create a smaller dot) I loved stippling and often worked till 5 and 6 am spending 100's of hours on a piece.

I might be wrong but my expectation is that I will pick this up quickly. I will stick with my core skills and do goth/fantasy and plan to work mostly on hard surfaces like helments, bike tins and cars. I will be using water based paints.

So my fear is that the brush will not do a fine enough line to please me. I am unemployed at the moment so this is a big deal as I will have to live with this single choice for quite a while.

So my understanding is that in the right hands most any good quality brush can produce a fine line. I'm down to choosing between a couple of the entry level Iwatas or the Paanche VL kit. I have at most $150 to spend on the brush itself.

Although I would prefer a suction feed for the quick color changes I believe I should be looking at gravity feed if its detail I want so that eliminates the Paanche VL and narrows it down to a couple of the Iwata's... correct?

Any opinions? I'm frozen with indecision so I need something to push me to make a choice.

Thanksfor the reply

Originally Posted by rowie

Binary, I dont know about picking it up and running with out a hitch but the best of luck if you can.

I didn't mean to suggest that I would pick it up with out a hitch, simply that I expect to pick it up fast.

If pretty much any brush, in the right hands, can paint hairlines then why all the needle/nozzle sizes?

I understand that at least a partial answer to that is that it allows for different viscosities of paint to be used but my impression from reading the manufacturers claims is that it relates to the brushes ability to render detail as well. Is this mostly just marketing?

well as proven one can make thin lines with almost any brush with proper thinning and psi set correctly theirs no possibilities on how detailed one can get but if ur worried about needle sizes well their are many standard or most found are .5 and .38 a brush like the iwata eclipse comes with a .5 but can be converted to a .38 as an example now if u want a .2 or smaller dont know about to many other brushes cuse im a iwata fan then u might wanna look at the custom siries or the hi-line siries but sorry to brake it to u dont think 150 is gonna cut it for those type of gun also u can go with a talon wich comes with a .38 needle size and have more needle sizes to come as for bottom feed and top feed thats preference in my opinion i have both and use them depending what im doing u can find alot of good info in the product review on this sight just my 2 cents hope some of the info was helpfull
ps
but to be honest its comes down to what u most feel confertable with cause after all some is the tool but everything is up to whos controlling it good luck and dont forget to post ur progress and or work


zero420

Binary what you are looking to do is achievable with a multitude of brushes. Being that you are wanting to do work with a water based enamel I would suggest a brush with a .5mm needle such as the Iwata Eclipse HP-BCS. You would be surprised the line control you can do with practice. This brush also has a additional needle and nozzle set that is .35mm so you can work even smaller. There is also the gravity version of the Eclipse that comes with the .35mm and you can buy the larger set. My Monkey and Jack the Joker were done with the HP-BCS. If you feel you want to go finner you can step up to the HP-C which has a .3mm needle, but it dose run into trouble with the Opaque colors. If you want to go smaller you will find it very hard to run anything but solvant based paints because they are thinner than the water based paints. The pigment particals are just too large and would need to be reduced too far for working on what you are. planning.

excellent info guys. This is the kind of thing I was looking for as it fills in a lot of the blanks.

thanks for taking the time to respond

Originally Posted by Airbrush Dreams

My Monkey and Jack the Joker were done with the HP-BCS. If you feel you want to go finner you can step up to the HP-C which has a .3mm needle, but it dose run into trouble with the Opaque colors. If you want to go smaller you will find it very hard to run anything but solvant based paints because they are thinner than the water based paints. The pigment particals are just too large and would need to be reduced too far for working on what you are. planning.

Thanks. Seeing some artwork associated with a specific brush helps quite a bit. You are a talented artist.

Also I have been studying quite a bit in preparation and have spent some time watching the eraser and exacto knife scrapping techniques. That has put my mind to ease to some degree as well.

I had always thought that the airbrush would be a good match for my style and taste in art but was put off by the learning curve. After watching a few dozen videos by some very talented people though I feel I have already progressed significantly though the learning curve and I haven't even touched an airbrush.

The internet is a pretty cool place but it is a bit of a rip off to those old school artists that struggled though learning and discovering new techniques on their own.

I hope reality lives up to my expectations and that this does come to me naturally. I will post my first picture for your amusement

I know what you mean. I wish the Internet was around when I taught myself how to airbrush. I started back around 1978 and the only thing I had around was a few of the old books on Airbrushing most of which were about illustrating. Now a days the newbies have so much at their disposal.

Kimmo is right about taking of the needle cap and I know what about bending the needle tip because I have crashed the needle tip a few times when I get going too fast. I bent the needle for my HP-BCS, HP-C and my HP-BC. All are definatly able to do fine pencil lines. The HP-C is considered the work horse of the Automotive industy where the Eclipse is a bit more versitle for larger spraying and doing fine detail.

Originally Posted by landsbro

To confuse you even morei'm kind of detail freak.my

nice pic. beautiful women are my nemesis. I used to draw a lot of them but it went against my natural inclination which leans towards the dark ugly stuff.

gravity feed airbrushes,because they are easy to clean when changing colors, like the Iwata HP-b with a 0,2 tip gives thinner lines than the lines in the letters in this post

the majority of people of people seem to prefer the bottom feed for ease of changing colors. You find it easier to run a cleaning cycle on a gravity feed then to just swap bottles? I do like the idea of being able to alter the tint of the color in the cup on the fly which is obviously much simpler in a gravity feed.

and there's a little trick to get super fine lines with these airbrushes,
paint with out the needle cap,that's what i do all times,it gives almost same control as drawing with a pencil,because you can see the needle tip
so you can come realy close to the surface,,,NOTE,, it's VERY easy to bend the needle tip if you hit the support,,

I had heard that but your explanation clarifies the idea for me.

well I think I'll order an Iwata Eclipse BCS. It seems to be a common part of many peoples arsenal and it falls well with in my price range which few of the Iwata's do.

Thanks for the help and input guys.

Anyone know a good Canadian internet store that is not in Ontario? I'd like to avoid as much of the taxes as I can

Originally Posted by Airbrush Dreams

I know what you mean. I wish the Internet was around when I taught myself how to airbrush. I started back around 1978 and the only thing I had around was a few of the old books on Airbrushing most of which were about illustrating. Now a days the newbies have so much at their disposal.

I went though that with computers. I've been a tech for 20 years and used to be a god. It was hard earned skill and now the world is filled with know it alls. They, for the most part, don't have near the skills of the guys that paved the way though. Unfortunately it seems few of the customers are aware of the difference. So now I'm going to paint angry pictures

Well I was just putting my order list together and I had a thought.

How much more efficient is a gravity feed paint wise over a siphon?

The only things I have found is the need to use a higher air pressure with the bottom feed which creates a bit more over-spray. If you use a ready caps that fit the bottle the paint comes in you will loose less paint during clean up. The gravity feed is a bit more efficient for paint loss.

Don't forget about a compressor!!!

You'll lose interest in airbrushing the first time you freeze a can of air up (after about the first 5-10 minutes, that is).

I'm new myself, and after experiencing the aforementioned problem, I ordered this compressor:

Northern Industrial Airbrush Compressor with Single Cylinder Motor, Model# 1202S152 | Air Compressor Pumps | Northern Tool + Equipment

It's small, quiet, adjustable and filtered. On the negative, it's small and needs to refill the tank quite often as you go. This is fine for me as I'm only working on scale models at low pressure (~20-25 psi) and I am never without compressed air. I'm not sure how well it would work on larger projects or at high psi.

Anyway, put a compressor somewhere in your budget!

Best wishes,

-mac