Thread: Beeswax to Seal? (for Fontgeek)

Ok, I'm all set with the right compressor, moisture filter and quick connects.

Tested my brushes and I'm getting both air and paint (need to work on my control of course)

I used aluminum tape around the threads on all the male connections all the way up the line from compressor to brush - just to make sure everything is sealed as tight as can be.

And now I have a leak in a place that I can't figure out how to block.

The nut that is at the bottom of my brush air hose is connected to the male end of the quick connect. That seal is tight. But air is escaping through the top of the nut, where the hose comes out. It's not just leaking - it's pouring out.

There is space all the way around the small metal tube that comes out of the nut leading into the hose.

Fontgeek - you mentioned in my last thread that beeswax is a good sealant for leaks on the connectors. Would this also work for blocking this leak at the hose nut?

And if so -- in what form do I use the beeswax? As a semi-solid putty / caulking agent? Or do I melt it and pour the wax into the top of the nut and let it firm up?

I'm headed to the farmer's market tomorrow to pick up the beeswax (only place in town I know for sure I can get it) and it would be helpful to know which form I need to get.

Or - in the alternative: any other suggestions anyone might have to seal this leak.

I'm losing quite a bit of air through the nut and it's draining my tank very quickly.

Thanks all, in advance!

P-Fly

Good to know! Thank you.

P-fly, I may be wrong, but I don't think beeswax will seal this type of leak. I would use something like mighty putty or JB Weld, just drain the air from the hose first, let the sealer set overnight.

A couple of things...
First, I would not use "aluminum" tape on any fittings, infact, I would not use Teflon plumbers tape on any fittings unless it was a ONE TIME/PERMANENT setup. The bulk of the fittings and such are brass, they may have chrome coating them, but they are still brass. Brass is fairly soft, so it distorts easily. The tapes, including the Teflon tape, don't compress very much, so when you stick them in the middle of threaded fittings, and the tape isn't going to give way when you tighten those same fittings down, it means that the brass fittings are going to stretch or distort to compensate for the tape you have stuck in to fill the gap.
While the cost of a new fitting you can get from the hardware store may not be all that wild, when it comes to replacing the airvalve, the nozzle, the nozzle or needle caps, etc., the costs can be very high, and the loss of time can be even more costly.

For the leaking hose, this is a problem that has plagued the Paasche hoses for as long as I can remember. You can try using a silicone on the hose fitting itself, but I would bet it won't work all that well. The fittings end up with so much gap, that the fittings work themselves loose, the gap ends up being opened again, and you are back to square one.
Your options?
Return the hose to the vendor and show that it is leaking, and where. If you are going to do this, you need to do it BEFORE you do any doctoring or "fixing" it. You might be able to trade it in for a new hose, but make sure the new hose is in working order before you leave the store.
You might consider getting an Iwata hose and a quick connect fitting. That, along with an male end for your brush(es) would let you pop brushes on and off as you please, and it would let you use one hose for any brush you own or will own in the future. While the expense is a bit more than just getting the Paasche hose, it does give you more freedom of use.

You might look at something like the Grex G-MAC for the quick-connect fitting, it gives you a really nice MAC valve on any brush you use with it, as well as the quick connect capability. The quick-connect fittings also let your airbrush swivel on the hose, rather than getting it all twisted up in a knot.

I would avoid the quick connects that require you to cut your hose up to insert them. While it might fix a short term problem, it can create another. Your cuts have to be really square on the hose, and when your hose starts breaking down, you have a heck of a time getting the fitting back out of that same hose so that you can use it on a new hose. And trying to make sure that the quick-connect fitting is not leaking around the barbed end of the fitting that inserts into the hose can be as big a fight as what you are going through now.

As KD said, I don't think the bees wax will help you for this particular problem.

Whoa!

You're assuming a lot more than I indicated in my post! (I believe that's twice now you've read more into my statements than was actually there).

I do appreciate your expertise. That is why I sought you out (specifically) for a solution to this issue. Please do try to keep in mind though: While I may be a beginner: I am not a total idiot. And I don't like being condescended to anymore than you would.

Now: I didn't use the tape anywhere on my brush. I used the tape on the quick connects & hose connections only. As I stated - "all the way up the line to the brush" - but certainly not on the brush.

- I do appreciate the your concern though, and of course, your thorough and educated reply.

Had I the time before my next video shoot (tomorrow) to return the Paache hose for a replacment (mail order) or go out in search of Iwata hoses and the proper connections to make them compatible for the Paache, I'd do that - but at the moment time is running short, so replacing the air hose will have to wait.

Meanwhile I will haul myself down to the hardware store and invest in a tube of silicone, use that on the hose fitting and hope for the best.

Thank you for taking time to give me a remedy - even if it is only a temporary solution.

P-Fly

P-fly, I'm sorry if you felt I was being condescending, I was not intending to be, but you need to keep in mind that when you post something on the forum, LOTS of people read the questions and replies, so while some of the things may have sounded simple to you, keep in mind that the message on the tape is for ALL the people that read it.

You would be amazed how many people use tape on everything, and the problems are even worse when it is a heavier tape used. Teflon tape is about as thin and pliable as you could get, but even it will do the damage. And for the readers of questions and answers on the forum, if someone doesn't say something is wrong when it is posted, then it is assumed that it is correct or right to do. The tape issue causes a lot of damaged or destroyed airbrushes every year, and the fact that it could be avoided just makes it that much worse.

The bees wax is nice and pliable, but for your hose problem, the pliability becomes it's weakness. While it's great for sealing up threads, the hose problem is a much bigger gap than it would seal up, and you would run the risk of getting wax blown into your airvalve or worse in your airbrush.

Ideally, you should be using brass fittings wherever you can, brass fittings don't rust. But the same issues occur on those brass fittings like they do on the airbrush itself. I've met plenty of experienced airbrushers who keep on taping hoses and fittings, then use wrenches/spanners to crank them tight. And every time they put them together or take them apart, the fittings get more and more stretched out and beaten up, so they end up replacing fittings and hoses on a regular basis because they can't tighten them up anymore, or the fittings are so beat up that the spanners won't grip on them. Using pliers or channel locks makes the situation even worse.


Good luck

Thank you, Fontgeek.

In the realm of cyberspace, we often find ouselves spending more time trying to explain away the inprecise nature of language and the intent behind our words, than addressing the original issue at hand.

Very clearly - you have much experience in these matters, and I do appreciate not only your expertise (and that of the other posters here) - but also that you are willing to make time to share that expertise with others like myself who are novice to the artform.

- Ahh Yes, the fittings: I have brass. Thusfar, I have not had to crank the fittings down or wrench them too tightly in order to eliminate the leaks, but should I need to remove them at a later time (and undoubtably I will), I will take extra care. I am now equipped with the aforementioned beeswax and will forever after use the preferred substance!

Your explanation as to why the beeswax would not work to seal the leak on the nut at the bottom of the hose makes perfect sense.

I assume that - if this is a common problem with Paache hoses - it is either a design flaw or a weak weld point?

Question: What is the benefit of using silicone to seal the nut over JB Weld?
I have both on hand. Just wondering why silicone is your preference.

Thanks again. (Also to everyone else who has answered here!)

P-Fly

I don't want to interject here too much but Paasche hoses have a small rubber gasket that fits into the ring where the connecting nut is. It sits in the indented part of the coupling inside of the whole nut assembly on the hose. If this gasket isn't there your hose will leak like crazy. The problem lies in the fact that it doesn't take much to jar the gasket loose and then it's a heck of a thing to try to find. Also I haven't found a common place to try to find one if these O rings either... I have to order them from paasche.com. The good thing is thery're cheap... like a couple bucks for 6. Hope this helps a bit.

You might look to see if the O-ring is there as Bahamut stated, if it isn't then you might look in the box the hose came in, it may be there, if not, you can order them from Paasche, and if you are going to do that, I would suggest getting a replacement needle and nozzle set or two for your brushes. The shipping cost is going to be the same, so you may as well have the backups on hand. Trust me, as you get into this, you will drop, lose, and or wear out parts, and losing time because you have to wait for parts to ge shipped in is a major drag.

The benefit of using silicone in this type of area is that it can dry with some stenght, and yet stay fairly*elastic. The bees wax is magnificent for most uses because it will fill the gaps, but also because it is neutral, it won't break down with the use of the solvent based paints. But because we are talking about the airhose itself, and not the airbrush or an area that might contaminate the paint, the silicone will probably do you better.

I think that Paasche planned on having the hose and fitting so that it could swivel easily when it was not under pressure, and I think they figured that when the pressure is on, and the airbrush is firmly mounted on the hose, that the airpressure and the airvalve itself would keep the end of the hose held firmly. You might find that using a small hose clamp in combination with the silicone will take care of the problem for you. The hose clamp can secure the female fitting at the end of the hose so that it can't move around, and the silicone can seal up the leaks. You need to make sure you get absolutely none of the silicone inside the airhose or into the airbrush though.

To be honest, other than the issue with the end of the hose and it's size difference, I like the Paasche hoses as much or more than the other brands. They don't screw you over on the longer length hoses like some other manufacturers do.

If you new brushes came with a barbed end fitting on the airbrush itself, you could replace the end on the original hose. Most new airbrushes come with an adapter so that you (the user) could use a piece of tubing or hose to connect your airbrush. This is very common in Europe. If your new brush came with one of these, you could, as I said, cut the existing end off of the hose, and replace it with one of those fittings., It would probably require the use of a small hose clamp to secure it, but it would solve your problems.

Hmmm. So much useful information, everyone. Thank you all!

Good point, Redneck - once cured, the silicone should be flexible enough to pull out of the nut assembly if the seal doesn't take.

I checked all around (in the nut assembly and in the box) for the missing gasket, but it is nowhere to be found. The short-term solution appears to lie in filling the gap between the nut and the hose with silicone, which I have done. Carefully - avoiding having it seep into the end of the hose. Silicone should be cured by the time I need to work with it tomorrow evening. I'll look into ordering replacment O-rings from Paache in the next day or so.

Preparedness is a good thing - I agree. I already have replacement needles and tips in my kit. I have two each of #'s 1, 3 and 5.

The hose appears not to have a barbed end fitting.

No hose clamps on hand - though I will check with someone on the crew tomorrow. You never know what someone might be carrying in their tool box. If not, we'll just have to hold our breath and see how this solution works for the day. Even with the leak, the brush works well enough - just the bother of losing air from the tank far too fast and the impractibility of having to have the compressor keep coming on and waiting in-between for the tank to refill is a drag.

If nothing else - I always have the option of doing make up the "old fashioned" way until this issue gets resolved.

This whole venture has a wide learning curve and luckily, no one expects me to be expert right out of the gate. Frankly, they're all very appreciative that anyone in this market is even attempting to move the craft forward to accomodate the HD format. So far, no other make up artist in our market is even looking at air brush.

Thanks again, everyone! I'll let you know how this worked.

Just a follow up for everyone:

The silicone DID work for me as an emergency seal and I am happy to report that I made it through this evening's video shoot without a hitch. I had three subjects to make up and had good, consistant pressure, great coverage and no leaks when it truly counted.

The silicone did not have a full 24 hours to cure before I needed to use my brush, however, and when I was performing cleanup at the end of the shoot, the seal did "pop"
during the back flush.

No matter - being flexible, the ring of silicone I had applied to the indent at the top of the nut housing came out very neatly in one piece, with no residue. Very clean.

This is a good temporary fix for a missing gasket, but obviously no substitute for having a properly fitted O-ring in place.

Thanks again, to everyone who stepped up with suggestions and solutions.